Pantry shelves dont hold a lot of food

[fuzzzbutt]

Is there a reason there is so little room in patry shelves? I spot per dish seems excessive, no? I made quite a bit of haggis with neeps and now my cold room is way too small to hold all my delicacies.

[Rane]

Splitting the difference could look like adding 3 slots to the Pantry Shelves. There could be 5 columns in the graphic image, instead of 4. 15 slots would at least make it feel less 'punitive', having to give up a whole tile for the access space, while still not giving quite 'as much per tile' storage space as just using three meat racks / serving baskets.

Food buffs are basically meaningless in a game where I can't direct a specific Fellow to eat a specific food, either in a 'go eat this now' sense or in a 'never eat X food, but still allow Y and Z foods' sense -- and yes, that sounds like an insane headache both to code and for a player to manage. I couldn't suggest that; but it's the only way to make food buffs really matter. I'm sometimes tempted to just never cook bowl food again and just only have pottage for everyone, just like 6 Cook Pots or something. Spending 2 IP on a mid-game item that's painful to not have even just 1 of but painful to have more than 1 of... is.... well, I do already tend to not buy Pantry Shelves until later, because of this.


....... are we supposed to be altering our food production based on season??? like, the veggie bowls for the summer and the stew for the winter? instead of always thinking about 'how can I get the right buff on the right Fellow'???? I feel dumb for just now thinking of that....

[Kernook]

That is one way to do it... yes...

Although you will reach a point where it doesn't matter what meals you are cooking if you are planning them seasons ahead of time... so if you want to use that method, choose a meal, and focus on that meal when you can in the off season... once you are very late game with several X8 dedicated farmers, hunters, cooks, and cleaners, these meals get easier to mass produce, and bowls get easier to keep clean and stored...
once you can get ahead of cooking management where you are about 4 meals ahead of demand on the daily, and you're cooking what you want the majority of your clan to eat for buff, that's when buffs really become useful and a slow stockpile of each meal becomes easy... because those four meals carry over to the next day provided your freezer is large enough...

That's the way to look at bowl meals in my eyes... not as a way to micromanage particular clan members, but what buff I want the majority of the clan to have... and that's why I pick movement speed buff... I always save and stockpile that for the winter personally so they aren't as slow moving in snow.... (prior to winter, food desirability is set to 0 on the movement speed meal). I only change that on Winter, morning 1... and on Spring morning 1, it goes back to 0, and no touchy until next winter... allowing me to stock pile that meal for that time...

To me, my personal (not everyone does this) gold standard is when I can stop rotating food because the stockpile has become entirely massive and doubles the size of clan's 2 meals a day allotment in bowl meals alone, in each food I want them eating...

That is a VERY late game goal though... 10+ years in, by the time your stockpile would entirely overshadow your clan that way... and once you do, you can build houses with smaller freezers with just the pantries in each household to help distribute the meals...

With the help of zones at that point, clanfolk will take care of needs in their own home zone if they can and aren't in dire need, so you can kind of demand what households are allowed to eat what kinds of food, if you've managed door locks to those households correctly... that's how I play...

I hope that helps you with bowl meal planning...

but if you want to keep some clan out of some kinds of food, give that family a small freezer of their own, and stock it with that meal type in their living space, with the correct door lock level.....

Alternatively you could make a very large kitchen and freezer area, and lock each section of freezer using door locks as well...

[Rane]

Originally posted by Kernook:

but if you want to keep some clan out of some kinds of food, give that family a small freezer of their own, and stock it with that meal type in their living space, with the correct door lock level.....

Alternatively you could make a very large kitchen and freezer area, and lock each section of freezer using door locks as well...

The problem with locking doors is that then only those Folk can go through those doors. Which means only those Folk can Haul the food into that one room. There can't be 'food delivery' by someone else... which means I'd have to balance that each room has a person Permitted To Enter who has Haul at top priority.... and that's just asking for pain.

The only way 'restrict Alice and Bob to eating a certain kind of food' would actually work would be to have:
- a Pantry Shelf or other food storage item that I could lock Alice and Bob to
- that I could obviously restrict down what is stored on that shelf/basket/rack
- but Haul tasks can still be performed by Other Folk, to take items to that storage location (and also to take disallowed items out of the storage item if needed, IE if a dirty bowl ended up on a Shelf and needed Hauling away).

Otherwise, individuals spend too much time managing their own food stores and that's... not helpful. When a single Fellow can only carry one Bowl With Food somewhere at one go, it would be way too much time spent.

(I'm kind of wondering if a 'lock for consumption but not for Hauling' could be applied to Wardrobes as well... A Fellow picking up a piece of clothing could be made to 'soft lock' the item to the Fellow. Use-lock that Fellow (plus spouse) to a Wardrobe. Now any worn clothing items have 'locks' and a Wardrobe that said item 'belongs in', so that if the item gets taken off, even some third Fellow can come and pick it up and Haul it to the Wardrobe where it belongs. This avoids the 'overstuffed here, empty there' Wardrobe situations. This permits 'blank' Wardrobes to store 'blank' clothing, until a Fellow comes to claim it. This avoids the 'Fall 3 bumrush', where everyone walks into everyone else's rooms in the middle of the night to don clothing. A person could actually make separate housing units instead of one giant homestead building, assign individuals to the various storage items, and it would mean something, instead of instigating weird, unnecessary midnight walking patterns.)

When I make freezer-pantries, I will family-lock the doors, and make a separate 'little room' (connected via vent, so it stays cold) with a separate door that holds 1-2 Serving Baskets that only allow Berries and Mushrooms. This way, my workers and guests can eat, but they don't eat food that costs Branches and Time to make. What I did for about, oh, 5 minutes was lock the Workers and any Guests to the door to that little room, because I noticed my Fam were coming and eating the berries and mushrooms too (noo, you have the whole pantry, yall). What happened was, berries and mushrooms would get hauled by Fam to the Fam-locked pantry, and never get taken to the Worker Pantry. Because they couldn't get in. (Also it's annoying to have to remember to lock all new Workers and any Guests to that door.)
So locking Folk to individual doors in an attempt to control which foods they eat is not going to make anything better : x .

(I do recognize that I have gotten pretty off-topic from the original post. Sorry bout that.)

[legendof7th]

Pantry shelves are irrelevant and useless. They require 3 tiles and can only hold 12 slots, where as three serving baskets costs less to produce, available much sooner in the tech tree, and, most importantly, can hold a total of 18 slots. The shelf's only use is that it can hold cooked dishes.

[Pengan]

I wanna put in my pennys worth here: In order for advanced shelving to be worth it, it need to be a space multiplier. a 3slot cabinet need to hold more than 4x 1-slot storage units before it is truly worth the material effort. As long you get a 1/3 extra bonus, they are worth it to build and to plan for.

[miauukisu]

Seems like all you here who just count tiles have forgotten one essential thing: movements speed effects.
If you completely fill your storage area with meat racks and serving baskets and don't leave corridors in there, it will take about TEN TIMES as long to haul food to rearmost baskets. Just check the movement speed, does having them move at rate of 0.09 seem smart use of folk time for you?
And if you leave corridors for smart movement, that will mean about 1 tile of 3 left for movement, exactly like with pantry shelves.

So difference in values is not as big as has been claimed, and even if there is difference it does not make one option automatically worthless. This is not a game where simple minmax rules appy, and are correct all the time and in every situation.

[MamaMOB]

Originally posted by miauukisu:

Seems like all you here who just count tiles have forgotten one essential thing: movements speed effects.
If you completely fill your storage area with meat racks and serving baskets and don't leave corridors in there, it will take about TEN TIMES as long to haul food to rearmost baskets. Just check the movement speed, does having them move at rate of 0.09 seem smart use of folk time for you?
And if you leave corridors for smart movement, that will mean about 1 tile of 3 left for movement, exactly like with pantry shelves.

So difference in values is not as big as has been claimed, and even if there is difference it does not make one option automatically worthless. This is not a game where simple minmax rules appy, and are correct all the time and in every situation.

I didn't forget that. I only count them as 2 slots because i use walkways. It's still not worth making more then 1 to fill with bowls. It's takes the same space as 2 meat racks or serving baskets or one of each. That's a waste after 1 dedicated solely to bowls. So their NEXT to useless.

[Rane]

I am aware of the movement decrease. I just don't care. I pack my tiles with racks/baskets because I want to use the tiles for storage space. They can just deal with moving more slowly.
(My current layout involves an 'outer cold room' that is accessible by workers, with baskets and racks set to 6, and the 'main pantry' that is locked to Fam and everything at 7 or 8. So everyone hauls farmed veggies to the outer room, then Fam hauls into the main section. Food still gets hauled in from the outside quickly enough. The movement speed decrease applies to such a small space in comparison to the entire map.)

I have 1, max 2 pantry shelves. I'd rather have more storage, even if it means sacrificing move speed.

[Chai]

My style of play is a little different in that it's a 'hybrid'. I don't build 1 large freezer, I build a few (2x3) "mini" freezers. They hold 1 pantry (the access space for the pantry right in front of the door) the rest of the spaces in the room are used for 1 tile storage. I like to keep types of food separate. Raw veg, cooked veg, raw meat , & cooked meat. I like the pantry for both its looks and versatility. It's easy to add meat to a "veg" pantry (or vice versa) without having to destroy/build anything.
Would I like it to hold more? ABSOLUTELY! Is it a game breaker that the pantry holds no more than the starter storage? IMO, no.
Your game your way, my game mine.

[2qhurda9]

The reason I prefer shelves to baskets in certain circumstances is teleportation. If the food moves, automatically, to where it needs to be you don't need to send a stupid to go get it. Baskets aren't as good for teleportation but I do continue to use them for the entire game.

I will generally build 4 shelves, 2 in the kitchen, 2 in the warehouse. Then use baskets for everything else. I do not build a freezer.