New theory: who Yu REALLY is

[Thundercracker]

so, a while back, i was chatting with user tunico about the game and various theories and unanswered questions, and i think we might have stumbled on a surprising revelation.

it's openly stated that "yu is you," meaning "the player." there's even a joking line about yu "having died many times," meaning that the player has died in video games a lot.

but what if there were more to this. it could be that you are yu, as simple as that, or there could be a deeper meaning that we've all been overlooking because of the easy answer given to us.

what if...... yu was actually the personification of "the prince?"

we learn from lila's film analogies that people are like films on a projector reel. we learn that the prince is the one shining the light through the film, and actually watching the movies. what if yu's line about dying many times was not a gag about video games, but an admission that as the "one true consciousness," yu has experienced death every time a sentient being dies.

there's some other supporting evidence in various other bits of yu's dialog, but they escape my memory at the moment. next time i get the urge to play through again, i'm going to record those bits here.

you might ask how the prince could even be a noosphere dweller, as he's supposed to be beyond even the "wold of ideas," when philosophers theorized his existence, and recorded their ideas, they created his avatar. it only takes a small group of people to manifest a dweller, as we see from lawrence's example.

this would also explain yu's reality warping abilities, his office out of time and space, and his ability to recognize lila.

this would mean that yu is still you, in a roundabout manner. your consciousness is the prince, after all.

[sparksbet]

I'm personally convinced that you, the player, or perhaps all players, are the Prince. I think the conversation between Yu and Lila where she discusses light and film reels is particularly telling for this -- Yu is a film reel that has "I want to know what the light is" written on it, and we're merely inhabiting him and convincing ourselves we are him for a time as the player.

[Avere Zornăescu]

If you visit Yu's office with the Daemon open, the daemon says "Still one of us" or something like that. I take that to mean that Yu is a representation of us, the player, in the game world, but it's still just that, a character with a set amount of knowledge. Don't forget, we know things that Yu doesn't, and Yu knows things we don't (What Lila whispered to him).

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by Avere Zornăescu:

If you visit Yu's office with the Daemon open, the daemon says "Still one of us" or something like that. I take that to mean that Yu is a representation of us, the player, in the game world, but it's still just that, a character with a set amount of knowledge. Don't forget, we know things that Yu doesn't, and Yu knows things we don't (What Lila whispered to him).

the beauty of the theory is that this argument does not refute it. the prince as you knows things the prince as me does not, and vice versa.

you and i are film reels, while "the prince" is the light that shines through both reels to present the illusion of moving pictures.

in this same analogy, physical existence would be the main "projector body." noosphere dwellers like lila are film reels without projectors, while humans typically come with a reel and projector.

yu would be an "artificial reel" like lila, but he seems to have come with his own projector. this may be because he is embodying a concept-being a magnitude above the dwellers. but due to his nature as a consciousness, as a film reel, the prince plays his part accordingly. the film is projected just as any other. yu has his thoughts, knowledge, and experiences separate from the player, and separate from the metaphysical force-being that is the prince proper.

[Goblin]

I think that Yu is not the player, but that he BELIEVES he is, hence the Daemon's "Still one of us" line

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by Goblin:

I think that Yu is not the player, but that he BELIEVES he is, hence the Daemon's "Still one of us" line

how do you reconcile this with the fact that dwellers are beings of personified thought, emotion, and sensation?

yu is definitely something of that order of being, he transcends time and space and sees all possible outcomes. what else could he be personifying?

[Amelinijka]

The game pretty much deconstructs the concept of self, so any question about "who" is futile by principle. That's the point. It's about giving "life" to ideas by the very thought of it, thus pointlessness of self.

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by Amelinijka:

The game pretty much deconstructs the concept of self, so any question about "who" is futile by principle. That's the point. It's about giving "life" to ideas by the very thought of it, thus pointlessness of self.

that's pretty paradoxical, considering the subjects at hand.

"self" and "who" are futile and pointless. however, if "life" is given to ideas by the very thought of the idea, "self" and "who" must become paramount.

the focus is just shifted to the metaphysical plane of ideas, rather than the physical, where identity remains pointless. in my opinion, at least, the points the narrative make vary on just who yu is.

[Amelinijka]

Point missed, as there is no difference, and there is no "y(o)u". It's merely a process.

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by Amelinijka:

Point missed, as there is no difference, and there is no "y(o)u". It's merely a process.

a process has input and output. each process can take the same input, and return a different output, making the identity of each process important information.

this is because, again, in the space where ideas are given life, the identity of the idea is its very existence. the "infosphere" just cannot function as it is presented if "self" is pointless there.

in support of this, i remind you of father lawrence. after his transition, he may have forgotten the name he was known by, but he did not forget much else. he retained some sense of self, enough to recognize that he was one known as father lawrence.

furthermore, consider "ideas are given life." what is the sense of self but an idea? does this sufficiently highlight the paradox of your position?

[Klampus]

I can't think about Yu without remembering that dumb joke from Rush Hour

[Leaffar]

What if:

* reels are video games
* projector is a computer / console
* the player is the Prince
* Lila is aware she's in a simulation / video game

But I I guess theories like this have been explored already.

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by Leaffar:

What if:

* reels are video games
* projector is a computer / console
* the player is the Prince
* Lila is aware she's in a simulation / video game

But I I guess theories like this have been explored already.

the first two are directly contradicted in game: lila explains what they are in the context of the game's universe. to us, though, they could represent games and consoles.

the third thing is an implication of what i'm speculating here.

the last thing is kind of true already, but not directly stated. there's some shenanigans going on and lila at least is pretending to understand them. it should be mentioned that she really has no motivation to lie and pretend she understands what's happening when she does not.

after all, almost all events of the game happen because /she/ makes them happen.

it should also be mentioned that t-gotchi, called out as the "child of L***" in a document in this game, is a self-aware video game character in her own game.

highlights an interesting contrast, though: t-gotchi wanted to go back to the forest of 1,000 sycamores more than anything, while lila wants to escape that same place more than anything.