RAILROADS Online

RAILROADS Online

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Ghost666 Jan 14, 2023 @ 10:07am
Sandbox and seperate Tycoon mode
so, seeing as my expenses thread turned into a sh*tshow with a bunch of people whining about it, how about the option of a Tycoon mode, (track costs, maintenance costs, facilities costs hard or realistic physics etc) and a dedicated sandbox mode (No costs for anything other than Locos and rolling stock)??

sounds like an idea that would keep everyone happy, those of us who want a challenge and those of us who just want to lay spaghetti and run trains?
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Weißbrot Jan 14, 2023 @ 10:22am 
+1 Sounds good.
Destroyer Jan 14, 2023 @ 12:06pm 
i do like the idea of having different gamemodes, but i think it would be cool to have it be Custom and Tycoon. the Custom mode allowing us to enable and disable stuff that we like and/or dislike. that way if we like the aspect of maintenance we could keep it active and disable stuff like rail cost.
cofg509 Jan 14, 2023 @ 12:45pm 
Originally posted by Destroyer:
i do like the idea of having different gamemodes, but i think it would be cool to have it be Custom and Tycoon. the Custom mode allowing us to enable and disable stuff that we like and/or dislike. that way if we like the aspect of maintenance we could keep it active and disable stuff like rail cost.
That's exactly the way it should be. Then everybody can enjoy it the way they see fit.
RetroACE135 Jan 14, 2023 @ 1:11pm 
+1 for me as well.

I honestly think a Tycoon mode would be an awesome mode to play in!

I used to play Railroad Tycoon 3 on the PC way back when, and when I first saw how this game played, my first thoughts were "This is a First Person Sim version of RRT3!" That game also had both a tycoon mode, for the "hardcore" railroad enthusiasts, as well as a "sandbox mode" where you could build your own virtual model train layout, free from financial constraints or worries.

It would give even more incentive to haul cargo around the map, and even opt for the "easier" money jobs (Logs to Sawmill or selling cargo directly at the freight depot for quick cash) if you are having a hard time finding a good route to lay rail.

I also think it would be somewhat of a good idea that once this mode is available, we could get a "Helper" system, kinda like how Farming Simulator does. Maybe have the ability to "hire" engineers to drive a train and stop at any switches they come to, or have a setting to ignore them if we tell them to (for yards, ect.). If/when signals become available, you could possibly tie an AI script to follow them.

This would help with solo players a bit, but not sure how well it would play out while in multiplayer sessions. It might even be too much trouble to deal with all together.
DishDoggie Jan 15, 2023 @ 8:49am 
Lol i feel like whining for fun but I will ask you a question. Why do you want to change the direction of this game so bad? why did you even buy it? it seam like the game didn't even come close to your level of a fun game. Realistically why should he do what you want? I am asking honestly to try to understand what you think. Please Reply and Thank you, I am not saying you do not have the right to think and say what you want. But if it were me, I would not care nor listen to this kind of thing. This game is like a old person it has fallen and can't get up. I just want all the BUGS fixed at this point.
Ghost666 Jan 15, 2023 @ 1:50pm 
Originally posted by DishDoggie:
Lol i feel like whining for fun but I will ask you a question. Why do you want to change the direction of this game so bad? why did you even buy it? it seam like the game didn't even come close to your level of a fun game. Realistically why should he do what you want? I am asking honestly to try to understand what you think. Please Reply and Thank you, I am not saying you do not have the right to think and say what you want. But if it were me, I would not care nor listen to this kind of thing. This game is like a old person it has fallen and can't get up. I just want all the BUGS fixed at this point.
it's not that I want to change the direction of the game, the devs previously said that costs for things would be coming, I would just like that extra challenge and "progression" feeling of having enough funds to make it to the next industry, I'd be happy for the bugs to be fixed too, but each and every update will bring new bugs regardless, such is the life of game development. a functioning game should be first and foremost, but the fact I can go and lay 300 hours worth of track and yards before even firing up a train seems counter intuitive, Imagine a survival game that hands you the end game weapons and food before you get out of the Tutorial, it#s why I get bored on Minecraft creative mode, I feel like I have NOTHING to work for , I grew up on Sonic, Railroad Tycoon, Sim City 3000, I never had the "easy" gaming like many people have today, call me old school, I like a challenge, I love the Dark Souls games to give you a perspective.
Ghost666 Jan 15, 2023 @ 1:53pm 
Originally posted by cofg509:
Originally posted by Destroyer:
i do like the idea of having different gamemodes, but i think it would be cool to have it be Custom and Tycoon. the Custom mode allowing us to enable and disable stuff that we like and/or dislike. that way if we like the aspect of maintenance we could keep it active and disable stuff like rail cost.
That's exactly the way it should be. Then everybody can enjoy it the way they see fit.
that's not how games work though, go back and play Sonic The Hedgehog on a Sega Genesis, without the save feature. They even had to make the Crash Bandicoot reboot trilogy much easier because newer gamers couldn't handle how difficult it was. just Keep Sandbox as it is now, and give us a Tycoon game mode which has track costs etc...
Ghost666 Jan 15, 2023 @ 1:54pm 
Originally posted by RetroACE135:
+1 for me as well.

I honestly think a Tycoon mode would be an awesome mode to play in!

I used to play Railroad Tycoon 3 on the PC way back when, and when I first saw how this game played, my first thoughts were "This is a First Person Sim version of RRT3!" That game also had both a tycoon mode, for the "hardcore" railroad enthusiasts, as well as a "sandbox mode" where you could build your own virtual model train layout, free from financial constraints or worries.

It would give even more incentive to haul cargo around the map, and even opt for the "easier" money jobs (Logs to Sawmill or selling cargo directly at the freight depot for quick cash) if you are having a hard time finding a good route to lay rail.

I also think it would be somewhat of a good idea that once this mode is available, we could get a "Helper" system, kinda like how Farming Simulator does. Maybe have the ability to "hire" engineers to drive a train and stop at any switches they come to, or have a setting to ignore them if we tell them to (for yards, ect.). If/when signals become available, you could possibly tie an AI script to follow them.

This would help with solo players a bit, but not sure how well it would play out while in multiplayer sessions. It might even be too much trouble to deal with all together.
I'd be just happy with the extra challenge of financial choices
Destroyer Jan 15, 2023 @ 1:57pm 
Originally posted by DishDoggie:
Lol i feel like whining for fun but I will ask you a question. Why do you want to change the direction of this game so bad? why did you even buy it? it seam like the game didn't even come close to your level of a fun game. Realistically why should he do what you want? I am asking honestly to try to understand what you think. Please Reply and Thank you, I am not saying you do not have the right to think and say what you want. But if it were me, I would not care nor listen to this kind of thing. This game is like a old person it has fallen and can't get up. I just want all the BUGS fixed at this point.
We all have different ideas for a fun game some of us like progression, while others like being creative. If the current road map haven't changed we should see different gamemodes come later down the line.
Destroyer Jan 15, 2023 @ 2:08pm 
Originally posted by Ghost666:
Originally posted by cofg509:
That's exactly the way it should be. Then everybody can enjoy it the way they see fit.
that's not how games work though, go back and play Sonic The Hedgehog on a Sega Genesis, without the save feature. They even had to make the Crash Bandicoot reboot trilogy much easier because newer gamers couldn't handle how difficult it was. just Keep Sandbox as it is now, and give us a Tycoon game mode which has track costs etc...
not sure if this is a response to cofg and me but my biggest concrean with a "sandbox" mode is it being locked to certain stuff, such as maintenance or day/night cycle permanently off where i think it could be interesting to play with those on. Or in simpler terms not having Gamerules
Last edited by Destroyer; Jan 15, 2023 @ 2:08pm
Ghost666 Jan 15, 2023 @ 2:33pm 
Originally posted by Destroyer:
Originally posted by Ghost666:
that's not how games work though, go back and play Sonic The Hedgehog on a Sega Genesis, without the save feature. They even had to make the Crash Bandicoot reboot trilogy much easier because newer gamers couldn't handle how difficult it was. just Keep Sandbox as it is now, and give us a Tycoon game mode which has track costs etc...
not sure if this is a response to cofg and me but my biggest concrean with a "sandbox" mode is it being locked to certain stuff, such as maintenance or day/night cycle permanently off where i think it could be interesting to play with those on. Or in simpler terms not having Gamerules
I think Sandbox should get the same base game features like time, but as far as economic issues, they should be locked to Tycoon mode. I don't think people should be able to cherry pick the parts they do and don't like. Games need to bring back boundaries, yes, many people won't like it, many will. For me, this is like a Railway Empires game but in First Person. It's all personal opinion here, only the Devs know what is going on
Paul Simnel Jan 15, 2023 @ 4:09pm 
Originally posted by Ghost666:
sounds like an idea that would keep everyone happy, those of us who want a challenge and those of us who just want to lay spaghetti and run trains?

Everyone, except those that want custom options. Some might want to customise progression by omitting some costs like maintenance, or track laying, while still having to do some work to progress and buy upgraded trains. I like this game because it gives a sense of purpose to running trains (as well as the ability to build own routes in game), I doubt I would haven wanted to play a sandbox mode even when starting out, except perhaps to test something out. Different players get different levels of satisfaction from different levels of difficulty, why not let some one customise how they spend the next 1000 hours of their life. There's no need for "real life is hard, you don't get to customise the settings in real life", its a non-competitive game). Only Sandbox or Tycoon, no other options that include progression might be a bit harsh. It depends, it would probably be different if the game was presented finished with just those options, but significant proportion of the player-base have got used to the game being a certain way (although it could all be changed, that's the nature of Early Access). That's probably why we have the physics settings we do, it might not have been intended, just that initial weights were wrong and people got used to it. Similarly if more realistic loco performance was added (which would roughly half what they could HAUL up grades (note, haul for minutes at a time, not just start from 0 to 0.1mph)), there would be those that would argue to have an option for the current simple model as well - which is fair enough, it'd be a lot to learn how to manage even a greatly simplified steam loco (but more involved than what we have now), as well as, track building and industry production, at the start and even later on.

Related to track cost, these could be difficult to balance so that it doesn't slow down early progress too much, but then become insignificant latter (i.e. $1000 is a lot when you start, but not so much when delivering Oil Barrels). One possible solution might be tiered track. Cheap early track, but you can only run locos of up to (for example) 35,000lbs on it, then 80,000 at the next tier, and 80,000+ for the third. You could lay track then pay to upgrade each spline (or relay it). That would scale the progression and give something else for you to manage. HOWEVER, it would be a significant extra complexity to code (how would the game determine or limit heavy locos from using lower tier track? Would the loco have to check the tier of every spline? How would the game tell/show player what tier the track was? etc.), so that's something very much for Version 2 or Version 3, not V1 of RRO. So initially it would probably be best to make those sorts of costs that we don't have now, customisation options, if added.

Don't forget there's a wide range of potential players, there's a lot of skills to learn (often by trial and error) you don't want to frustrate new players too much (while still keeping the appeal of some progress) - see some contributors to these pages. That casual player that starts today, might be the player that becomes the most valuable member of your hardcore (every cost turned on) online railroad 3 month latter. It doesn't hurt you to have others use different options. Do you think that all "Tycoon" mode players should have to use "Realistic" physics settings because someone on "Casual" physics has an economic advantage in that it costs them less to provide the motive power to move the same amount, so they'd be able to be more productive than you for less cost?

Finally, this game doesn't appear to be an entirely a traditional "Tycoon" type game, it has elements of that, as well as of train simulators and world builders (and each of those elements could be expanded further), but it is something different. Saying you think it should have only one economic model mode with every cost and no others is fine. Saying you should be able to customise the maintenance and track costs, whilst still having progression costs is also fine. Both positions have valid arguments for and against them, (as Ghost666 implies) it'll be up to the developers how they decide to balance those arguments for everyone they are targeting as potential player and customers.
Last edited by Paul Simnel; Jan 15, 2023 @ 4:15pm
RetroACE135 Jan 15, 2023 @ 5:13pm 
Originally posted by Paul Simnel:
Finally, this game doesn't appear to be an entirely a traditional "Tycoon" type game, it has elements of that, as well as of train simulators and world builders (and each of those elements could be expanded further), but it is something different. Saying you think it should have only one economic model mode with every cost and no others is fine. Saying you should be able to customise the maintenance and track costs, whilst still having progression costs is also fine. Both positions have valid arguments for and against them, (as Ghost666 implies) it'll be up to the developers how they decide to balance those arguments for everyone they are targeting as potential player and customers.
For the "Tycoon" mode, it could do like how the Railroad Tycoon games did, tie both economy and track costs and industry settings into it's own settings (easy- Low maintenance costs, high profit per load, Medium- average costs and profits for both, or "Tycoon"- High costs, low profit), then allow us to choose the physics type we want to use separately like we do now.

Sandbox mode would be great to have to be able to test new locomotives and equipment as they come out, though.

I'm all for having a "custom" mode, but I would more than likely op to try the most "realistic" mode to challenge myself. If somebody wants the easy way, more power to them. lol

I just think it's cool as all get out that somebody finally managed to make a (future) successful train simulator that not only focuses on the Steam era, but also on the "ugly ducklings" you would often see on shortline and narrow gauge railroads (I love seeing all the weird and unusual things they had to make do with on log lines). The closest thing I have ever played to this game was Railroad Tycoon 3, but that focused on both steam and diesel, and more so only on the management of the company and connecting towns/cities with your rail network, rather than driving the trains yourself.
Ghost666 Jan 15, 2023 @ 11:00pm 
Originally posted by Paul Simnel:
Originally posted by Ghost666:
sounds like an idea that would keep everyone happy, those of us who want a challenge and those of us who just want to lay spaghetti and run trains?

Everyone, except those that want custom options. Some might want to customise progression by omitting some costs like maintenance, or track laying, while still having to do some work to progress and buy upgraded trains. I like this game because it gives a sense of purpose to running trains (as well as the ability to build own routes in game), I doubt I would haven wanted to play a sandbox mode even when starting out, except perhaps to test something out. Different players get different levels of satisfaction from different levels of difficulty, why not let some one customise how they spend the next 1000 hours of their life. There's no need for "real life is hard, you don't get to customise the settings in real life", its a non-competitive game). Only Sandbox or Tycoon, no other options that include progression might be a bit harsh. It depends, it would probably be different if the game was presented finished with just those options, but significant proportion of the player-base have got used to the game being a certain way (although it could all be changed, that's the nature of Early Access). That's probably why we have the physics settings we do, it might not have been intended, just that initial weights were wrong and people got used to it. Similarly if more realistic loco performance was added (which would roughly half what they could HAUL up grades (note, haul for minutes at a time, not just start from 0 to 0.1mph)), there would be those that would argue to have an option for the current simple model as well - which is fair enough, it'd be a lot to learn how to manage even a greatly simplified steam loco (but more involved than what we have now), as well as, track building and industry production, at the start and even later on.

Related to track cost, these could be difficult to balance so that it doesn't slow down early progress too much, but then become insignificant latter (i.e. $1000 is a lot when you start, but not so much when delivering Oil Barrels). One possible solution might be tiered track. Cheap early track, but you can only run locos of up to (for example) 35,000lbs on it, then 80,000 at the next tier, and 80,000+ for the third. You could lay track then pay to upgrade each spline (or relay it). That would scale the progression and give something else for you to manage. HOWEVER, it would be a significant extra complexity to code (how would the game determine or limit heavy locos from using lower tier track? Would the loco have to check the tier of every spline? How would the game tell/show player what tier the track was? etc.), so that's something very much for Version 2 or Version 3, not V1 of RRO. So initially it would probably be best to make those sorts of costs that we don't have now, customisation options, if added.

Don't forget there's a wide range of potential players, there's a lot of skills to learn (often by trial and error) you don't want to frustrate new players too much (while still keeping the appeal of some progress) - see some contributors to these pages. That casual player that starts today, might be the player that becomes the most valuable member of your hardcore (every cost turned on) online railroad 3 month latter. It doesn't hurt you to have others use different options. Do you think that all "Tycoon" mode players should have to use "Realistic" physics settings because someone on "Casual" physics has an economic advantage in that it costs them less to provide the motive power to move the same amount, so they'd be able to be more productive than you for less cost?

Finally, this game doesn't appear to be an entirely a traditional "Tycoon" type game, it has elements of that, as well as of train simulators and world builders (and each of those elements could be expanded further), but it is something different. Saying you think it should have only one economic model mode with every cost and no others is fine. Saying you should be able to customise the maintenance and track costs, whilst still having progression costs is also fine. Both positions have valid arguments for and against them, (as Ghost666 implies) it'll be up to the developers how they decide to balance those arguments for everyone they are targeting as potential player and customers.
It has Zero world building because we can't edit terrain, which leaves us to the Track laying, train driving and making money from industries, sounds Tycoon if you ask me, but that's my perspective.
wladi | astragon  [developer] Jan 17, 2023 @ 6:19am 
Eventually, several game modes are definitely planned - especially something like a sandbox where you just build. But it will take some time still :)
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Date Posted: Jan 14, 2023 @ 10:07am
Posts: 15