So EA is throwing politics and diversity in this franchise now?

[Skrubmeister]

Interesting...

[zenstrata]

Sadly yes. It appears yet another game is doomed to be ruined by poorly injected social justice goals. I hope I am wrong, but honestly, I can't think of any games that turned out to be good after their original story was altered by injecting these sort of things.

So i'm entirely expecting the same fate to befall the dead space franchise as well. Something about repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results comes to mind. So now when I see this sort of stuff being put into a game - especially a previously existing game - I can't help but expect the same thing to happen as all the rest.

So yes, this Remake is very likely going to be bad.

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Public Notice
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For those who post in this thread - it is a fair battleground of ideas.
Even-handed and reasonable arguments are welcomed.

If attacked with great vehemence and vile messaging - then use the reporting system as Gabe intended, and let the moderators deal with those who are obviously breaking rules. Quietly endure the slings and arrows of those attackers, for your long-suffering temperance and reason, will throw into stark relief, the differences between parties for all to see.

[Quickdraw]

Originally posted by Blade:

Interesting...

What are you talking about, exactly ? I seriously don't know.

[zenstrata]

Originally posted by Quickdraw:

Originally posted by Blade:

Interesting...

What are you talking about, exactly ? I seriously don't know.

These videos are worth taking a look at. They represent several large departures from the original design philosophy of Dead Space. And the first video includes comments from the original developers on their design philosophy for the original Dead Space.

This video comes from the perspective of a long-time player of the Dead Space franchise, it goes over yet more problems that have been uncovered by fans, and is worth taking a look at.

(Note: This contains minor spoilers from the game)
https://youtu.be/mDx6G3KF1EM

The creator of this video goes over several problems and clarifies why he is not happy with the Remake. I feel like his criticisms are valid. Of course you may disagree. But if you have never played the first game, it makes several good points about why he is now feeling this way, when he was initially very excited about the Remake.

(Note: It does contain minor spoilers from the game)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ij0SQpzezA

This next video focuses more on the changes to the character models themselves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce7IWkxKCa4

Here is also another image i clipped and created to show one of the differences in character design more clearly.
https://imgur.com/gallery/aKhYCiW

Notice the major changes between Dead Space 1 and the Dead Space Remake. And this image only concerns the face of one character. The body type of other characters have also been drastically changed, the video goes over those differences in more detail.

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ADDED NOTE
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Thanks to "l'Original" for this information.
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It has also come to my attention that there are several developers who worked on Mass Effect Andromeda, and then went to work at Motive, and are now working on the Dead Space Remake. If anyone remembers how Mass Effect Andromeda went... I will elaborate a little of that history.

Mass Effect Andromeda - It was a horrible buggy disaster. Andromeda spelled the end for the Mass Effect Franchise. It was such a mess, EA pulled their support for the game very shortly after it's release, and never delivered on even the basic promised DLC expansion packs....

They are also responsible for the reasons why the characters faces were basically all messed up and destroyed in Mass Effect Andromeda. Which makes perfect sense when you see what is going on with the characters faces and changes in the Dead Space Remake vs the Original Dead Space.

Andromeda was so bad - it spawned the now famous "My face is tired" meme which has persisted till even today. There was also a clear difference between the faces of characters in the previous Mass Effect games, and Mass Effect Andromeda

- the female faces of characters in Andromeda were practically all what i would call 'butter faces'. They were all flawed in various ways, or were lopsided and distorted. And this is not attributable to bugs, because we see the same thing going on here in the Dead Space Remake. The females in the Dead Space Remake now have massively different body shapes from the original game. They also all have the same sort of blemishes and distortions that were present in Andromeda - and the Same Developers worked on both games!

So there is practically no question now - These changes are especially suspect to begin with, and appear to be purposefully pushing personal goals to tick social justice tick-boxes. These developers have a history of this, and now they are doing the same thing in the Dead Space franchise.
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[zenstrata]

This post by another user goes into extreme detail of many other issues with the Remake - but the thread was accosted by constant attacks, and has since been locked. But the first post in this locked thread has most of the information in detail. And also provides supporting evidence of the differences between the original and this upcoming "remake".
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1693980/discussions/0/3714937078843366671/

[Dela117]

The most egregious change that i would consider woke would be the change in appearance of Nicole and Kendra. Aside from that i can give them a pass since they only race swaped a character that had no major role in the original game (on of the copilots of the kellion) and she seems to die anyway, also the race swaps in the posters don't really seems like a big deal since they are that, just posters (and we should be able to mod back the originals).

Oh and the Kendra being a lesbian thing we know is false since she is actually referring to Isaac and Nicole.

If these are all the changes then im ok with them, i still feel they are completely unnecessary but if the rest of the game is polished and they managed to retell the story in an exciting manner and with better gameplay then im all for it.

[Quickdraw]

Ok, so changing characters and dialogs suck but the rest of it looks like bugs nothing that can't be fixed.

[zenstrata]

The problem is usually that when social justice changes are injected, it means they focused more on that, and much less on the rest of the game. And usually the people injecting those narratives, are inexperienced developers as well, which typically influences the final product in very bad ways. Bugs are only one part of that.

The changes to the lore are completely unnecessary, and undoubtedly will make the game worse overall. That + the inevitable bugs from inexperienced developers... well, like I said earlier - i've seen so many games ruined this way now, it's become the rule. When I see this sort of stuff, i already know it's going to be bad.

I used to be able to point at 1 property in all entertainment that is considered to have 'social justice' themes but was good. That was The Witcher TV show on Netflix. But now Henry Cavill has left that show, because the writers don't even like the source material, and he didn't agree with where they are taking that series. Henry was the only thing keeping that show even moderately good. Because he loved the original story, and pushed very hard to make all the little changes that kept it from being a disaster.

But now he's gone too, and I have nothing left I can point at that pushes the 'social justice' narratives and is also good.

So do I have hope for this Remake given what we've seen? I can't say that I do.

[Kennedy]

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[CosmicD]

Most of these points aren't even dealing with politics but observations about unpolished tech stuff, criticism about pacing, LOS issues, the rythm of some events, projectile animation details, shrapnel animation volumes spilling over into another room, funny sound effects. And while that all is valid feedback on their own, this is thrown at you with a total disregard for the improvements in set dresing, gameplay additions and added sections of the ship, better lighting and atmosphere that accentuate a dramatic mood.

There's no substantial criticism about the story in there that suggest a political view of any kind. The "agenda" stuff is just assumed because of the characters in this engine not quite looking like their original, and the voice direction has been given a different accent, more level headed characters.

This criticism is rooted in the belief that this game should remain in the "valve / multiplayer" paradigm and any addition of immersive gameplay elements or cutscenes will destroy the atmosphere from the original game.

But yeah, go read that thread, Again the criticism is fine but the developers are slandered as amateurish for all the subjective takes about the changes as well, not only for the unpolished bits only. But gaslighting of new fans that are interested as "you're part of the problem if you like this game", is not ok. That thread has a "we're the original game's stasi here " feel to it. When you don't agree to all the puritanical takes, you're kicked out of the "real fan" club. Sorry but i'm not having this. Peeps shouldn't legislate their takes on others to agree with.

BTW: before someone brings up the limited run games affair, (and I truely find it a debaccle). I'm ahead of you. I find it an affront to free speech and people's integrity when the queer stasi manages to get a woman fired for following "the wrong people" on twitter. But then I'd suggest not to order the collectors edition. That guilt by association stuff works the other way too. It's not because some characters have a change of tone and appearences because they're now portrayed by other ppl, that they've got a woke agenda.

[mikef12306]

Originally posted by Blade:

Interesting...

Who cares?

[zenstrata]

If it's good, then great. i'll be happy. But like I said in my earlier post, I literally have nothing I can point to that has injected changes like this into an existing property and has turned out to be good. Not 1 thing. They are all bad. I see no reason to assume this will be any different based on what i've seen so far.

There are very good reasons why properties, which inject changes for social justice into an existing property, have a bad reputation. It's their track record. They are all pretty awful.

Also the developer history of this activity (Which I mentioned in my earlier post), appears to directly support my hypothesis. (Reference the earlier post for details of the developer history. They did the same thing in the Mass Effect Andromeda game, they are doing it again with the Dead Space Remake.)

[Paul Caruso]

Originally posted by zenstrata:

This post by another user goes into extreme detail, but the thread was accosted by 'diversity' & 'Inclusivity' warriors and has been locked. But the first post in this locked thread has most of the information in detail. And also provides supporting evidence of the differences between the original and this upcoming "remake".

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1693980/discussions/0/3714937078843366671/

The first post you linked sounds like the unhinged ramblings of Alex Jones, the other one you posted has actual criticism based on the quality of the product itself rather than insane conjecture.

[ADMNtek]

The real reason why this was done isn't anything as stupid as what people, are screeching about. in the original game only a few of the characters were modelled after the actors but in this one, it is all of them it seems. I also assume this game uses full-performance capture so it is a lot easier to start from scratch.
Tanya Clarke, for example, was used as both model and voice for Nicole in DS2.
the only one I do think looks off is Isaac since he looks too young he is 47 and from what I have seen doesn't really look like Gunner in some angles he does in others he doesn't.
and Nicole isn't ugly she is just old like Isaac.

[zenstrata]

This particular response about modeling the characters after the voice actors is false. Especially concerning the supposed age of the original character in Dead Space 1.

Her age is never listed by the original Dead Space developers, there are only guesses that were put onto wiki's, but have never been confirmed. And so, those who are more concerned with identity-politics/social-justice, keep trying to use this as one of the defenses, to justify this particular change. (making the characters ugly in the Remake on purpose) And there are some people who are justifiably confused and believe that information.

Unfortunately - this particular information filtered into the rest of the community from a guesswork number from a very old Dead Space wiki, which was never confirmed by the original Dead Space developers. There is also evidence that one of the authors of that wiki holds extreme bias, she wrote a thesis paper on how she was angry that women in games are too young for her liking.

But it's fairly obvious these guesses on the characters ages are incorrect - based on the original dialogue that we do have from the first Dead Space developers (found in the developer commentary of that game).

The original Dead Space developers say, they meant for those female characters to be young and attractive, calling them a 'bright spot' to serve as a counterpoint to the horror going on in the rest of the ship. They are supposed to be attractive to help drive the main character and the player forward to give them a reason to keep going despite all the bad things going on around them.

So you can safely ignore that particular explanation, the whole 'voice actor falsehood' is only being pushed to justify this identity politics driven change. We can't have attractive women in games anymore according to these people (beware that evil male gaze! women don't exist for your pleasure! etc.). And they make up all sorts of useless justifications to push those political goals.

[Shrinkshooter]

Originally posted by ADMNtek:

in the original game only a few of the characters were modelled after the actors but in this one, it is all of them it seems.

Which is not a reason to do something like this. Increase the age of a character by a few decades because that character's VA is that age? What ridiculous reason is that? And keep in mind, the actors on whom the modeling was based on were younger in 2008. You don't age the character with their actor. This is all sorts of incompetence or stupidity, don't know which.

the only one I do think looks off is Isaac since he looks too young he is 47

I have seen people state that there are no canonical sources for ages. People made them up. You're the first I've seen call Isaac 47. I saw someone else call him 43. I've read multiple times that Nicole is 39, but there is no actual point of origin source for this, it appears to only be on some DS wiki somewhere that doesn't source its claim.

and Nicole isn't ugly she is just old like Isaac.

Isaac isn't old, first of all. Secondly, Nicole looks 55. Nicole is nowhere close to 55. She looks at least a decade older than the model they used for Isaac in this. They made Nicole look a decade or two older than where she should be, and that's wrong. Again, either incompetence or stupidity.