Dead Space

Dead Space

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connordavisj Dec 10, 2022 @ 10:00am
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This remake is a monument to just how amateur modern game developers are.
The animation in the remake is WEIGHTLESS. These comparisons are EVERYWHERE. Tense, confrontational dialogue has been replaced with emotionless, wooden voice acting. Entire character personalities and relationships have been rewritten for "the modern audience" and now they sound like the Scooby-doo gang trying to solve a mystery instead of a crew of people who really don't like each other trying to keep their ♥♥♥♥ together in a terrifying situation. ♥♥♥♥♥ tier weapon recoil. Sliding legless necromorphs. Ejected plasma cutter batteries seemingly still being parented to Isaac during their animation so they just follow him in mid air and then instantly fall down in a straight line at the peak of their arc. (Edit: I have seen recent footage where this may no longer be the case, or it may have been a bug that was happening all too often. I will say that the new reload isn't nearly as satisfying as 2's while still making as little sense as 2's, but at this point this particular issue can probably be downgraded to a personal gripe.) BLOOD GETTING ON THE ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ CAMERA IN A FRANCHISE THAT PRIDED ITSELF ON PUTTING THE HUD IN THE GAME WORLD TO HELP YOU FORGET THERE'S A ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ CAMERA BETWEEN YOU AND THE ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ GAME. Even the doors open too fast. What kind of complaint is that? Every second a door takes to open is an extra second you spend worrying about what could be on the other side. DETAILS ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MATTER in horror and these ♥♥♥♥♥ just try to cover up their inadequacies with shiny graphics and lighting that anyone with a free UE4 license and a home computer can achieve. Every scene in the remake involving something happening through a window sounds like it's happening in the EXACT same room that Isaac is in. In 2008, ♥♥♥♥ happening behind glass SOUNDED LIKE THE NOISE WAS TRAVELLING THROUGH GLASS before reaching our ears. Isaac no long walks like he's being slow and cautious. He hops from foot to foot like he needs to take a massive dump but can't find a bathroom, and animation quality is visible rock bottom across the board. Dead corpses float in zero-G, their health bars on their RIG's visibly glowing bright blue. The Necromorphs now only seem to come in bald flavor while donning the face of a wojak meme and Slashers all seem to share identical morphologies despite the devs having three games worth of body horror to draw designs from.
Holographic video communications that once featured handcrafted glitches and corruption with hand crafted sound effects to match said distortions have been replaced with a generic garbling filter overlay that just loops until the video file is done playing.
I could go on about this ♥♥♥♥ for hours.
People keep accusing me of hating change but what I hate is that a game being made over a decade after the original is lazier, lower quality, and less attentive to detail than a game made using the engine of a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ GOLF GAME that was built in two thousand and ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ eight by a studio that was producing its first ever original IP. You couldn't even adhere to the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ design principles of the project that you're remaking. I'd go so far as to accuse the team behind this remake of not even watching the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dev diaries the team at Redwood Shores put out when they were producing the first game. I mean hell, you took one of these most iconic and unique video game box arts ever produced, and swapped it out for the bog ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ standard "man stands and looks at camera" ♥♥♥♥ that every video game box has had for over twenty ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ year now.

In 2008 I couldn't wait to see the future of video games if Dead Space was THIS ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ good. In 2022, the only future I hope for is an complete and total industry crash. None of these people deserve to be paid for this garbage "work" they've done. Having high resolution textures and light simulation doesn't make a project better. That's the laziest ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ improvement imaginable when I can achieve the exact same thing on my home computer with a free license for Unreal Engine 4 and a couple hours of time.

I'm going to dump piles of evidence and I've decided to keep updating this post every time I find something I feel is substantial and instantly identifiable.

First off is this embarrassing garbage.
https://i.imgur.com/EmAZGDd.mp4

Then you've got the elevator scene. The original makes sure that its music and sound calm down, to give the jump scare full shock value when it happens, while the remake just keeps the strings blaring at full blast. The original has a necromorph visibly struggling to open a heavy door while the gears audibly grind in your ears with each chunk of progress it makes while the original is just the sound of a necromorph gargling and the strings continuing to blare while it shoves through the door with all the weight of a cardboard box.
https://youtu.be/NkXzYBxrGrg?t=525
https://youtu.be/GKTY5zsxG6Y?t=527

When Chen is stabbed, this blood splatters all over objects on Isaac's side of the window, and the entire scene plays out as if there is no glass between them. The scene is not only completely deadpan on an audio level, it doesn't even account for the literal wall between the viewer and the events that are transpiring. The audio mixing is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ as well, wherein gunfire is drowned out by the sound of a man moaning and you can even hear what either Isaac or Kendra are saying.
https://imgur.com/a/W0VTD0y
https://youtu.be/GKTY5zsxG6Y?t=493
Meanwhile the original features proper mixing all elements of the scene and the expected muffling of the sounds by the wall.
https://youtu.be/NkXzYBxrGrg?t=496

On the topic of glass. What the hell is this and why does it look like my graphics card is dying in real time?
https://youtu.be/eTPQZmmcgOc?t=284
I'll take a nice quick effect that disappears so that my focus is taken by the monster over a the floor throwing a rave during and even after the scene is over.
https://youtu.be/NkXzYBxrGrg?t=5153

The complete lack of THIS image, anywhere in the marketing is a complete disregard of the things that made the original so unique.
https://imgur.com/a/5dReRhI
Instead in the cover of the game we get a generic shot of Isaac in a hallway just like every other box art ever in the last twenty years.

I have yet to see a Necromorph that doesn't look EXACTLY this utter cartoon of a zombie. Every single one of them is bald and making this exact face.
https://i.imgur.com/eIpVtDV.jpg
While the original features this as the standard monstrosity with its blood soaked matted down hair and gouged out eyes:
https://i.imgur.com/iYdI4l1.jpg
As well as 5 other variations including a nightmarish female spitter:
https://i.imgur.com/0aRoMQ3.jpg

The remake seems to have a very strange aversion to gore in general, as well, at least by comparison. Dead Space 1 and 2 featured a variety of some absolutely grotesque corpses scattered throughout their environs with flesh and muscle stripped from their bones, exposed rib cages, emptied skulls, and other horrors that helped sell the idea that being caught by the Necromorphs was a truly grisly fate. The corpses seemed less like random murders and more like the work of malicious, sick, and overly vulgar serial killers that take pleasure in dismantling the bodies of their victims. Most corpses in the remake's appear clean with a shiny red blood decal applied to some part of their body or another or maybe missing a limb or head.

Then there's this total garbage.
https://youtu.be/RAzd9opnRjU?t=360
Not only are they covering the screen with blood which is completely antithetical to the design philosophy of how the original developers wanted to treat the camera in the game by reminding you that there's a camera in the first place; but the Lurker's tentacles are visibly just rigid curves that only articulate at their roots, while the original game (animated in 2008 for ♥♥♥♥'s sake) makes them writhe and undulate like a prehensile limb should.

Then there's absolute comedy gold in their own presentation where they discuss adding "SO MUCH DETAIL" while rattling off a list of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ particle and lighting effects (which aren't good by merely existing, they're good by being used properly) while an ACTUAL detail goes completely ignored. A corpse is visibly floating in the chamber right in front of Isaac with a completely full health bar on its RIG.
https://youtu.be/RAzd9opnRjU?t=403
https://i.imgur.com/3pPG9wo.jpg

The script rewrites have removed the constant infighting between Kendra and Hammond. This is an objective fact. Their personalities have been completely altered. Kendra is no longer the hot head that WANTS to be in charge and Hammond is no longer the authoritative figure trying to assert his control on the situation to keep his team alive. The script rewrites have changed the complete gender and race of some characters, and have even changed how they died. In fact, as of this writing, we have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ IDEA how the Captain of the Ishimura died, because he no longer has Kyne's needle sticking out of his eye.

Acting is undeniably less emotional in general despite their extreme situation. I URGE you to go back and play the original release up until you reach tram control for the first time and pay extreme attention to just how distressed Nicole, Hammond, and Kendra sound during their scenes involving danger.

Here's another comparison where the remake devs have now idea what sound through glass sounds like vs the original:
https://youtu.be/pVcE0EIjJL0?t=85
https://youtu.be/NkXzYBxrGrg?t=2262

Then there's the video files when you receive calls or find them on the ground; specifically the unique ways the original actually hand crafted its distortion while the new remake lazily feeds them through a filter and calls it a day. This is also a great time to compare acting emotion and character dynamics:
https://youtu.be/NkXzYBxrGrg?t=655
https://youtu.be/GKTY5zsxG6Y?t=679

As a much smaller gripe, I'm also not a fan of the new Augmented Reality logs for a few reasons. Firstly, their very function means scenes that were once video logs you would pick up or be sent (and could thus review freely at any time during any chapter of the game) are now localized holograms that you can't ever take with you. You can't view them on the move while you search for supplies or anything like that. You have to stand in place and stare at them in whatever room they take place in. Secondly, the hologram tech on display for these scenes are by far the most advanced Dead Space has ever seen and feel incongruent with the world's established technology in general; especially on the Ishimura which is a very old mining ship. Holograms in Dead Space and its sequels have always been very simple 2D planes. 3D hologarms have always existed but have always been very basic in function; lacking any type of correct scaling, detail, or animation outside of basic panning. The most advanced technology we've ever seen in this regard was the basic admin AI named ANTI in Dead Space 2, and even her very basic 3D hologram could only be displayed from bulky dedicated projector pits that had multiple visible projection units surrounding her to be able to fully manifest her hologram. The remake now has ridiculously sophisticated single point of origin hologram projectors that feel like they're right out of Mass Effect and capture every detail and shadow of whatever they're recording and then reprojecting. They also seem to be wholly capable of picking out and recording ONLY individual sounds, somehow. The recording of Chen's death just magically omits the gunfire and yelling that surrounds him while still replaying his groans and that of the Slasher with ridiculous clarity.
https://youtu.be/6Wqc18o-g44?t=144

Stiff and wooden Zero-G flight (made worse by the fact that it appears to be in boost mode)
https://i.imgur.com/nLhwppw.mp4
Meanwhile:
https://youtu.be/xvgkEgtB_iA?t=7427

It all just feels so empty. Like plastic dolls throwing around zero weight. And there's that good old BLOODY SCREEN SO REAL.
https://youtu.be/6Wqc18o-g44?t=3034

What even is this sudden insane lighting change in both the ship and the skybox when all Isaac does is walk two steps forward?
https://youtu.be/eTPQZmmcgOc?t=297

The hallway after you acquire Stasis is brilliant and so very simple. All it does it put you in a hallway and kill the lights briefly. It plays noises that imply something is in the darkness with you and very nearby and let's your imagination do the rest. It's an elegant and immediate way to cause fear. You'll be hard pressed to find a player that doesn't immediately begin backpedalling into the nearest wall or corner from these two simple acts.
https://youtu.be/a16xHhgt970?t=2203
But the remake seems to think that MORE is scarier. Vision goes blurry. The speakers play incredibly loud static while Isaac groans. This no longer feels like a power outage leaving you alone with a monster. It feels like a dev team just throwing random ideas into what used to be unironic perfection. There's no horror here.
https://youtu.be/f8PzJhR3DE0?t=833

I saw someone explain the difference between these two scenes best. Your eyes are drawn to the partially obscured crate when a monster suddenly runs by between the player and what they were looking at while a perfect musical sting accentuates the jump scare.
https://youtu.be/F4S-YmzLfsE?t=586
vs.
A man in a horror house runs past you and goes RAAAAAAAH for no reason. It's outright comical.
https://youtu.be/GKTY5zsxG6Y?t=643

For the next few comparisons I want to discuss interactivity. Interactivity is the number one most important and distinct advantage that video games have over other mediums of entertainment. And interactivity is an especially important part of creating horror in a video game. When a player is in control of their character, they always feel at risk which increases the tension. Anything that's happening in a scene. Any sound they're hearing. Any sight they're seeing. By keeping scenes interactive, you produce a feeling of uncertainty in the player, as they have no idea if they are making the correct moves to survive what is happening. Even if they are not actually at risk at all, leaving control in their hands ensures that they have no idea if they're at risk or not which is a scary feeling in itself. The nano second you take control away from them and turn something into a cutscene, you have removed their fear of risk and their fear of making mistakes; because now they can't experience either. When you take away control, you communicate that nothing they do in the scene matters. That they need not feel afraid. Now they know that they have to sit and wait for control to be given back, and that nothing bad will happen to directly to them while they wait to just be allowed to play the game again. The remake is making a clear and undeniable effort to reduce interactivity which is a detriment not only to immersion but to the horror as well.

When the Kellion explodes, the original game leaves you in full control as fire envelopes the screen to the point that it's actually difficult to see while you sprint for the exit in a panic while the ship burns down around you.
The remake gives us a super epic action scene that tosses Isaac right out of the ship.
https://youtu.be/eTPQZmmcgOc?t=429

When the glass walls of the hallway leading into the morgue suddenly shatter while an inhuman roar rushes down to meet players, control is never taken away. Players are free to react in the way they are most likely too, which is immediately getting the hell away from whatever the hell is going on in that hallway. Once again, by leaving players in control, they do not know if backing away is even the right move or not but their instincts are screaming at them to so that's what they do. Their fear controls their decisions, and on top of that, they'll now be very uneasy about walking down the hallway that just made that ungodly noise.
https://youtu.be/NkXzYBxrGrg?t=3179
The remake simply replaces this with a window exploding while also taking full control away from players during the scene. Is the new lighting pretty? Sure. I should ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hope so. It's been 14 years since the original game came out. But all the fear of the scene is completely removed. The hallway is not longer a scary and mysterious thing that you recoil away from. It's a cutscene where a mechanical failure happens at no actual cost to the player and they simply move on when they're finally given control again.
https://youtu.be/f8PzJhR3DE0?t=2285

And of course we have the pièce de résistance. The morgue scene where the captain is turned into a Slasher. They made a video where they talked at length for ten minutes about how they worked so hard on this scene. Ten minutes of talking about how they took an interactive surprise from the original and turned it into a non-interactive cutscene.
The original work sees players entering the morgue and as they make their way past some gurneys, they spot an Infector leaping down onto the captain's body in an adjacent room to transform him into a Enhanced Necromorph; a distinctly darker looking, harder to kill, and more deadly creature. Up until now, the game has presented a repeated pattern of showing new Necromorph behind the safety of thick glass or grating before introducing them to combat later on. But here the scene breaks the mold. Not only does it show you TWO new types from behind glass, one of them is capable of creating MORE Necromorphs. Suddenly the new and deadly looking Slasher shatters through the glass; completely betraying how glass has functioned in prior scenes leading up to this scene and players are immediately given an "oh ♥♥♥♥ it's in the room with me" moment as something unexpected has happened, and worse, they are in a morgue filled with fresh bodies for the newly introduced Infector to transform!
The remake replaces this interactive moment with a 45 second cutscene. The player has no control over their actions and no means of responding, so nothing that happens is scary in any way. The scene makes sure to place them at an optimal distance away from the newly infected captain so that he can be killed easily, and while the infector is indeed freed to go infect more bodies, they are all bottlenecked by a single doorway to Isaac's position. You no longer feel panicked to stop it before it can create more enemies. You feel in control of the situation thanks to the bottleneck, unless you're the player in this video who wildly runs out into danger but that's really more on him than the game. And that's not to mention the casual dialogue playing while he's in imminent danger being very poorly placed in the game.
https://youtu.be/f8PzJhR3DE0?t=2367

The "squeezing through a tight space 25 second long cutscene" is here too. I think it's safe to say that most gamers are tired of seeing this ♥♥♥♥ in games at this point. And it's only made more egregious by the fact that the original game didn't need this sort of fake loading screen. Dead Space 2 also had something like this with vent crawling, but its vents remained interactive zones by giving you full control of the movement and camera, and also functioned as a means of making fans of the first game extra uncomfortable since they carried the foreknowledge that Necromorphs use vents to get around. I especially adore the detail of this scene where Isaac witnesses something running by in the vent, and chooses to turn his back to said vent as he continues sliding by while we wait for the cutscene to end.
https://imgur.com/a/dfayrrV

I can only assume other scenes will be just like this throughout the game. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if we kill the Hunter with a QTE.
Last edited by connordavisj; Jan 2, 2023 @ 11:36pm
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Showing 1-15 of 305 comments
RJX3029 Dec 10, 2022 @ 1:03pm 
Yeap

The audio was noticeably less detailed in the game preview, just less enthralling all around

The lighting in the room where they first encounter a necromorph was way too bright. The original used shadows, sounds, really kept you wondering what was going on and this remake just totally missed that and wasn't even close to as atmospheric as the original.

And you're right it's due to people being hired for reasons other than talent. Who lack the passion for the game that the original people making it had. Now it's just a vessel for a political message instead of just being focused on a good game. They're too busy blackwashing posters on the walls to adjust the lighting and sound to be better and create a true horror atmosphere that could be even better than the original. But nope.
connordavisj Dec 10, 2022 @ 1:37pm 
Originally posted by RJX3029:
Yeap

The audio was noticeably less detailed in the game preview, just less enthralling all around

The lighting in the room where they first encounter a necromorph was way too bright. The original used shadows, sounds, really kept you wondering what was going on and this remake just totally missed that and wasn't even close to as atmospheric as the original.

And you're right it's due to people being hired for reasons other than talent. Who lack the passion for the game that the original people making it had. Now it's just a vessel for a political message instead of just being focused on a good game. They're too busy blackwashing posters on the walls to adjust the lighting and sound to be better and create a true horror atmosphere that could be even better than the original. But nope.
It hurts the script immeasurably, as does the piss poor acting/acting direction. Everyone sounds completely uninterested in their own plight whether its their ship crashing, their friends being murdered by nightmarish fleshy aliens, or Nicole's suicide. The difference in acting quality/direction is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ night and day between this and the '08 release, and the script that has been blatantly rewritten to make Hammond less of a masculine and commanding figure only makes it even worse. Him and Kendra constantly butting heads is just another layer of tension that's completely gone now.
RJX3029 Dec 10, 2022 @ 2:24pm 
Originally posted by connordavisj:
Originally posted by RJX3029:
Yeap

The audio was noticeably less detailed in the game preview, just less enthralling all around

The lighting in the room where they first encounter a necromorph was way too bright. The original used shadows, sounds, really kept you wondering what was going on and this remake just totally missed that and wasn't even close to as atmospheric as the original.

And you're right it's due to people being hired for reasons other than talent. Who lack the passion for the game that the original people making it had. Now it's just a vessel for a political message instead of just being focused on a good game. They're too busy blackwashing posters on the walls to adjust the lighting and sound to be better and create a true horror atmosphere that could be even better than the original. But nope.
It hurts the script immeasurably, as does the piss poor acting/acting direction. Everyone sounds completely uninterested in their own plight whether its their ship crashing, their friends being murdered by nightmarish fleshy aliens, or Nicole's suicide. The difference in acting quality/direction is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ night and day between this and the '08 release, and the script that has been blatantly rewritten to make Hammond less of a masculine and commanding figure only makes it even worse. Him and Kendra constantly butting heads is just another layer of tension that's completely gone now.

Yeah, they made Kendra nice or something. WTF is that. And the VA was definitely more tense in the original, you could feel the fear in that first room. This, well the magic just seems gone. But they made it woke so guaranteed they will have "defenders" and high ratings for it. Race swapping? Check. Lesbians? Check. 8/10 didn't even have to play it.
METAL Dec 10, 2022 @ 4:14pm 
What I also noticed is gone from the original, that you found some magazines with a sexy red bikini girl on it.
Like when you pick up the first weapon, right there on the bench. Didn't see it in the remake.
RJX3029 Dec 10, 2022 @ 4:18pm 
Originally posted by METAL:
What I also noticed is gone from the original, that you found some magazines with a sexy red bikini girl on it.
Like when you pick up the first weapon, right there on the bench. Didn't see it in the remake.

Just another checkbox. De-sexifying women? Check. 8.5/10 now.
connordavisj Dec 10, 2022 @ 4:32pm 
Originally posted by METAL:
What I also noticed is gone from the original, that you found some magazines with a sexy red bikini girl on it.
Like when you pick up the first weapon, right there on the bench. Didn't see it in the remake.
That's the least of the problems, quite honestly. I'm far more offended by the fact that a game with a 14 year technology advantage, which has an entire pre-existing video game to use as a blueprint, is somehow lower quality than the original release in almost every single way. Either they're incompetent enough that THEY haven't noticed what's lacking in their remake, or they think we're stupid enough not to notice if they fill the screen with enough shiny textures, polygons, and particle effects.
nwad Dec 10, 2022 @ 4:37pm 
Quality doesn't matter when a game is being used as a political platform.
connordavisj Dec 10, 2022 @ 4:43pm 
Originally posted by nwad:
Quality doesn't matter when a game is being used as a political platform.
There's no reason you shouldn't ask for both to be rectified. What good are the games of the future if they're still lower quality than the games of the past, even without some sort of forced messaging weighing them down. There's no reason to praise a low quality game purely because it doesn't try to pander to some sort of political faction.
nwad Dec 10, 2022 @ 4:49pm 
Originally posted by connordavisj:
There's no reason you shouldn't ask for both to be rectified. What good are the games of the future if they're still lower quality than the games of the past, even without some sort of forced messaging weighing them down. There's no reason to praise a low quality game purely because it doesn't try to pander to some sort of political faction.
Of course, both sets of issues are valid and should be addressed. I'm already quite happy with the original Dead Space, so the technical details of the remake don't personally mean much to me.

However, trying to replace such a classic game with a woke remake bothers me a lot. I'm fairly certain the original game will be taken down from Steam and Origin (or whatever replaces Origin) after the remake is released.

Yeah, it's insulting to see a subpar remake of such a great game, and doubly upsetting that it's being used to promote destructive politics. There's so much that needs to be corrected here.
Last edited by nwad; Dec 10, 2022 @ 4:49pm
connordavisj Dec 10, 2022 @ 5:06pm 
Originally posted by nwad:
I'm fairly certain the original game will be taken down from Steam and Origin (or whatever replaces Origin) after the remake is released.
I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dare them.
nwad Dec 10, 2022 @ 5:19pm 
Originally posted by connordavisj:
I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dare them.
Hopefully I'm wrong. Maybe they'll pull a SEGA and realise they goofed, fix all the problems and make an actually good remake that everybody will like. I doubt it, though. This is EA we're talking about.
connordavisj Dec 10, 2022 @ 5:35pm 
Originally posted by nwad:
Originally posted by connordavisj:
I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dare them.
Hopefully I'm wrong. Maybe they'll pull a SEGA and realise they goofed, fix all the problems and make an actually good remake that everybody will like. I doubt it, though. This is EA we're talking about.
Zero chance any of this is fixed before it releases, and negative percent chance they actually delay it to solve all this.
nwad Dec 10, 2022 @ 5:40pm 
Originally posted by connordavisj:
Zero chance any of this is fixed before it releases, and negative percent chance they actually delay it to solve all this.
Probably true. EA should have hung on to Visceral Games.
hareymon1 Dec 10, 2022 @ 7:54pm 
I think the essay is completely false and it's just a bunch of baseless complaints from someone who doesn't like change. The Dead Space remake is an incredible game and it's a huge improvement over the original in every way.

First of all, the animation in the remake is absolutely stunning. The Necromorphs move and attack with a level of realism and fluidity that was unimaginable in the original game. And the door mechanics, while different, are still incredibly effective at building tension and creating a sense of unease.

Secondly, the sound design in the remake is just as good, if not better, than the original. The music and sound effects are carefully crafted to build tension and create a sense of fear, and they are incredibly effective at doing so. The writer's complaints about the sound design are completely unfounded and I think they are just grasping at straws to find something to criticize.

Overall, I think the essay is just the rantings of someone who doesn't like change and is unwilling to give the remake a chance. The game is an incredible achievement and I think it's a huge step forward for the franchise. I can't wait to see what the developers do next and I have high hopes for the future of the series.
RJX3029 Dec 10, 2022 @ 8:09pm 
Originally posted by hareymon1:
I think the essay is completely false and it's just a bunch of baseless complaints from someone who doesn't like change. The Dead Space remake is an incredible game and it's a huge improvement over the original in every way.

Gawd how much did they pay you?
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Date Posted: Dec 10, 2022 @ 10:00am
Posts: 305