Rename World Ascension to Masochist Ascension.

[freeidleon]

This is suppose to be fun? Theres a laundry list of resets.. but Equipment level, equipment dictionary upgrade resets? Guild levels, town building ranks?

Who upset you so badly dev? We can help you.

[Darnavir]

Resetting basically everything except the reset gained rewards is a normal part of incremental games.

The most tedious to gain things generally stay, it isn't the equipment levels, guild levels or town building ranks. What was once unlocked by guild rank stays unlocked so the guild levels aren't a major setback, building ranks can be gained again just fine (cost goes up fast with level), equipment level doesn't really matter with strong base stats etc.
Bestiary, town building research, title quest, talisman progress and similar slow to gain things stay. Accomplishments make more stuff stay, the 1st one allowing keeping unique equipment can be obtained after 1st WA.

[Dying pancake]

T3 rebirth will reset equipment lv, but you can get equipment proficiency (lv5 to lv6), with the help of it you can master uncommon gears really fast, like one afternoon. Skill lv advance is even faster with both T2 rebirth boost and WA boost, you can literary master your skill to lv100 in 30 mins (and can be faster)

And sure i understand you, its rather disappointing to see a grindy game lose progress, and i am agree with more permanent stats should be added in game. Its EA for only 2 weeks hold up an open mind.

[Furrygopher]

No idea why you would think this is such a big issue.

Talisman passives don't reset right? So i'll go into the world ascension with an extra
16 HP
1.3 Magic defence
1.2 defence
0.4 attack
and 1% gold gain

Those 5 min milestones are doomed.

[Arkhne]

Originally posted by Furrygopher:

No idea why you would think this is such a big issue.

This:

Originally posted by Dying pancake:

And sure i understand you, its rather disappointing to see a grindy game lose progress,

Just because you can't personally understand why losing that much progress in an already very grindy game isn't a dealbreaker to some people doesn't mean it isn't.

Personally, I'm pretty neutral on it. I think the first world ascension probably does look and feel scary because it is such a setback, although it will obviously become a null issue pretty quickly. It comes at a time when you feel like you're finally starting to make progress, only to move you back (most of the way) to square one. Most of this is really little more than perception, as any who stick through it will notice *looking back*, but it *is* something that will drive people away *looking forward*.

[O_o]

wait there is a tier 3? I can only do tier 1~ how does one unlock higher tiers?

[RamenL]

it gets fun once you are use to it I thought that at first but the resets are OP

[aquern]

Originally posted by SpookyOh:

wait there is a tier 3? I can only do tier 1~ how does one unlock higher tiers?

If you're talking about Rebirths, increase the rank of your Temple in your Town.

If you're talking about World Ascension, I do not know. I have yet to do my first tier 1.

[Augoeides]

My only complaint right now, is that the early character level is ridiculously slow. I'm almost 24 hours in, and I'm just now getting to Lv97, at like one level an hour if that. I know things will get a lot faster, but most idle games introduce the Rebirth mechanic within the first hour of gameplay, not dozens of hours later.

I can't progress any faster, because my gold and resource growth are locked behind whatever the Rebirth mechanic is hiding from me. It's a bit more of a chore, than I'd like from a game of this type.

[Zent]

You keep enchanted equipment, so that minmaxed +800% exp fairy staff with -500 level requirement can come with you, and starting a world with "full" gear/enchanted lets you completely stomp the entry of the game. The bonuses from ascension are worth it and kind of necessary (4th active char slot, increased clear count per clear, the rest of the bonuses are garbage imo) I did world ascension twice and I can't see much benefit to doing it a 3rd time but those 2 are def worth. There's no tier 2/3 world ascension yet and tier 3 rebirth doesnt feel complete, you cant go beyond the devilfish area (spider-bat-fairy-fox-devilfish) so you're limited to a fair bit. In general the game seems to be "complete" up through to Fairies. So there's no rush, you really should do world asc at least once when you can get ~15 points or so, the extra slot is super nice but the extra area clears is a godsend when it takes 50k clears to unlock a dungeon/etc.

Things to note before ascending: Gear with enchants OR enchant slots will stay. AKA the thief proficiency that gives all items enchant slots lets you keep those. Enchant your best toys, anvil stuff for reduced level (stats are negligible later on, you quickly end up with over 10k attributes to spend, but peaking around 400-500 level, and level requirement can go nutty, I've seen enchants (tier 2 rebirth pts gain level 10 for instance is +2000 level, level 10 exp gain is +200) putting items well aboe the 600-700 level range and you can anvil that down to ~200 which is quickly achievable with the tier 1 rebirth bonus

[Augoeides]

Originally posted by Darnavir:

Resetting basically everything except the reset gained rewards is a normal part of incremental games.

Incremental games also don't normally have a thousand different mechanics for you to keep track of. Resetting dozens and dozens of things you have to wait literal days to progress is really dumb. It doesn't matter if there are WA skills that speed things up, because there's no way the skill points you get from your first WA is going to speed things enough to not waste thousands of hours of your playtime.

And then there's Nitro. I've spent money on this game, and used Epic Coins to buy Nitro. By doing WA, i'm actively throwing away the money I've invested, because I'm never getting that Nitro back, and any progress I made with my Account using that Nitro is now lost. Honestly, the more I think about how I'm getting closer to WA, the more I think I should just quit the game right now. It doesn't sound fun in remotely any way.

You get almost not inventory space and it takes literal weeks for some of the damn equipment to master. Just thinking about permanently losing that alone makes me want to uninstall the game.

The only way WA would be remotely fair, is if you got a passive x100 bonus across the board, but from what I'm looking at, the WA passives seem to only give like +25% to +100%. Why the hell would I throw away hundreds of hours of gameplay, just for +25% experience. WTF is the point of that?

[Darnavir]

No progress made with nitro is exactly lost - it is an irl time shortcut to the same outcome. Nitro isn't something that should be bought though - there are almost always better options.

While there are many things to keep track of, you are way too involved in some of them. Many things are meant to be temporary and reset every now and then. Equipment is a typical example of this: T3 rebirth resets equipment levels without resetting dictionary points (you can get more from the same equipment) and has upgrades making leveling equipment faster. There's no need to keep every piece of equipment, what matters most are dictionary points and good enchants (and some base effects) on individual pieces. Note that WA doesn't delete enchanted items. If something takes weeks to master, it can (and should) wait - the time will come when it won't take weeks. Same for unique items - there will be enough of them.

Btw, my first WA was after 2 weeks and I got back in like 5 days and pushed further since then. WA gives you WA points, accomplishments (more WA points to spend and thing kept through), milestone based bonuses and area prestige (yet, it's very good). The are booster is extremely useful - more clears (for prestige and swarms), more materials (for buildings).

Progress is made in WA upgrades and stuff carried over, what is reset serves as a source of WA points and is meant to be temporary. This also means that OCD perfectionism in these areas is unnecessary and you should focus on low hanging fruits/what is currently needed. There's a reason you are officially still in the tutorial stage (it end with area prestige after WA).

[Augoeides]

Originally posted by Darnavir:

This also means that OCD perfectionism in these areas is unnecessary and you should focus on low hanging fruits/what is currently needed.

This is exactly was pisses me off though. I'm actively investing effort into the game, and WA seems to completely ignore that, and give you the finger. There's a lot to keep track of, and micromanage, so you don't need to 100% idle the game, but if your literally going to reset the whole account, it utter ruins the concept of the game. I know it's an idle game, but if I'm NEVER going to be involved with the game at all, and it's just going to delete all my progress... why even play in the first place?

Also, unique gear. If what your saying is true, it makes Unique gear utterly worthless. I've been trying to train the Slime Robe since Day 1, and a week later I only have it at lv4. Unique gear is rare as hell, and WA basically says "rare stuff is worthless". Why even put stuff like that in the game in the first place, if it serves no purpose, since you can't even master it in time for WA?

Then there's the Alchemy reset. I could understand Dictionary/Equipment resets if there's a way to speed that up, but Mysterious Water and leveling the Catalysts through super rare items takes FOREVER to do. I'm almost at 200 Mysterious Water, and maxing that to permanently increase the cap takes at least an hour, unless I'm willing to sacrifice Essences, which you clearly need to do anything with Alchemy. To lose all ridiculously time gated stuff, along with permanently deleting your equipment just seems retarded.

[H.R.Puff'N'Stuff]

so only ready the first post and here's my take. yes the world ascension is long but its nice having another progression reset separate from another. it makes the first one feel good but also gives a bigger aspect to the total game. i would say the reveal is a bit early, wait to reveal progressions until we are just about to hit them because 2 days ago i saw world ascension and got so excited by that , but now my excitement has kinda folded and i feel like that is because it was shown to early. just like a movie trailer released to early, it like, "hey look at this badass movie trailer" and then you see it will be released in a year and a half. like i loose steam in that time.

[Augoeides]

Originally posted by H.R.Puff'N'Stuff:

i would say the reveal is a bit early, wait to reveal progressions until we are just about to hit them because 2 days ago i saw world ascension and got so excited by that , but now my excitement has kinda folded and i feel like that is because it was shown to early.

Finding out about the World Ascension mechanics tonight single-handed ruined 100% of the fun I was having. I can't even look at the game without being disgusted. It feels like literally NOTHING I do matters in this game anymore, because it's all going to get deleted anyway. I don't care about NG+ being slightly faster, I don't want to spend hundreds of hours re-earning the same time gated, mind numbingly item grindy mechanics by starting all over from scratch. It's basically an account delete, and if the game isn't going to respect my time and effort, I've got better things to play.

I really loved the time I had with this game, but it feels like once I unlock WA it's just going to betray my efforts, so why ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bother.

[Darnavir]

10 WA accomplishments make essence levels persist. All materials (except town ones) persist. Until you get that accomplishment reward, you don't push essences to their max and just get the "reasonably cheap" levels - it doesn't really change anything; the additional levels quickly drop in effectiveness. With red magic slime pet, mysterious water cap extension can be automated and return you back long before you WA again. Given that you keep the materials and essences, you don't need to produce them all the time - the vast majority of potions is produced with autodisassemble for gold/alchemy points/nitro (that persist through WA) anyways. Red magic slime and a day of no essence production (no time in a WA time scale) will max out mysterious water.

Uniques work pretty well for their purpose with no levels (damage/drop rate are always useful for their area). Their leveling isn't exactly feasible until T3 rebirths that increase equipment exp gains. Area prestige can increase their drop rate. About their rarity: I already disassembled many of them because I don't need 3+ copies of the same item.

I understand what you say because I started my first run with a similar OCD approach and later figured out that things didn't stay that way. The things lost either directly give you WA points or are just a stepping stone to progress elsewhere.
I played IEH1 though so I came with the expectation of certain seemingly permanent thing being reset and becoming very temporary. Just like in IEH1, what matters and what doesn't matter significantly changes over time. Few things are permanent and these that are usually either matter a lot or are hard to farm fast. There's a reason the entire game until after the first WA is officially covered in "tutorial" quests.
If it doesn't persist through a WA, it should be treated as temporary and isn't worth spending too much time/persistent resources. Stuff that resets usually has exponential (or close to) cost scaling with level so getting back is often easy. The hardest to level things with a major impact are alchemy points and town research that don't get reset. You already have all pets and what was once unlocked, stays unlocked. You have town research (some are super important), autorebirth (you certainly should have it before WA), autocollections, enchanted equipment, alchemy essences to turn into potions/gold, materials you farmed before. The game goes almost instantly back to what it was before WA (interaction and automation-wise).
I too was concered before the first WA that I would just lose all my progress, but after I did it, it didn't feel like an "account delete" because the tedious parts of the first WA were already done or not as important as they once were and don't require more than a half-assed approach now. Many things that were slowly done before the first WA simply don!t have to be done again.

WAs also aren't meant to be "rapid fire" like rebirths, each one requires more milestones than the previous one. You generally ascend when you feel like you can't get any more milestones/titles/whatever anytime soon and the WA will make you better enough to be worth it/get it. And it isn't "slightly faster", it is a lot faster after the first one.