Pistol Double Taps: Second shot always goes low

[ShinUon]

I tested this in the ready room with a friend using binoculars to spot, and we used the middle (12m) and far (22m) targets. We tested with the P226 and (I think) M9.

When you do a rapid double tap with a pistol, the second shot will land very low (below the target if aiming center mass).

Is this intentional? This also explains why it feels like my pistol shots at anything beyond 10m miss the mark half the time--because they are (I tend to double tap).

[JtDarth]

It's entirely possible that you are simply firing the second shot as the character is mid-reset animation. causing the barrel to be pointed low. You can always try to vary your timing and see if that solves it for you.

I've personally not noticed such a thing, but it's possible that my double-taps are either too fast or too slow to encounter the same issue.

[ShinUon]

Originally posted by JtDarth:

It's entirely possible that you are simply firing the second shot as the character is mid-reset animation. causing the barrel to be pointed low. You can always try to vary your timing and see if that solves it for you.

I've personally not noticed such a thing, but it's possible that my double-taps are either too fast or too slow to encounter the same issue.

If you test in the ready room using a MK25 and aim at the far targets in the back (aim center mass or below), you should be able to reproduce on a fast double tap. The target will not go down because only the first shot will hit. I only realized the second shot had this issue of going low after spotting a target for a friend who was having the same issue.

Realistically, if the second shot is going to be off, it should be above the first shot, not below.

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by ShinUon:

Originally posted by JtDarth:

It's entirely possible that you are simply firing the second shot as the character is mid-reset animation. causing the barrel to be pointed low. You can always try to vary your timing and see if that solves it for you.

I've personally not noticed such a thing, but it's possible that my double-taps are either too fast or too slow to encounter the same issue.

If you test in the ready room using a MK25 and aim at the far targets in the back (aim center mass or below), you should be able to reproduce on a fast double tap. The target will not go down because only the first shot will hit. I only realized the second shot had this issue of going low after spotting a target for a friend who was having the same issue.

Realistically, if the second shot is going to be off, it should be above the first shot, not below.

A few things, after testing it myself:
1.
I had to use an autoclicker set to a gap of 60ms between shots or less to get any sort of substantial (in this case it looked to be 1-1.5 inches @ max) downdrift, and even then it was inconsistent.

2, This same thing occurs with ARs too, when double-tapped fast enough.

3. Those targets require two shots to go down, I never had any issue landing the double tap on those far targets with a stock MK25, even when there was some down tilt via autoclicker.

4. The weapon animation in this has a slight shake to it as it resets. THAT is what is causing the down-drift, which also makes sense as for why it took an autoclicker with a specific pause for me to get it to occur with any level of consistency. It's a timing issue on when you are firing during the animation.
The only time it should be an issue, is when you are double-clicking way too fast, and thus resulting in it firing again as the weapon is lowering. Keep in mind, in this game the bullets are aimed where the barrel is, not at an invisible crosshair that remains static. This also brings in that it may be a mechanical offset issue (normal pistol sights aren't know for being super-precise, even disregarding zeroing and the like).

5. Different weapons have different zeros, and bullet drop is a factor.

6. If the shots are fired quick enough, you may be mistaking shot 1 for shot 2. As in, you may be misreading the impacts on target. I fired at the walls in the ready room (heresy, I know) to observe the smoke puffs to determine which was first and which was second.

7. Game has an arm-strength mechanic that means your characters arms sway. This sway does not magically disappear because you pulled the trigger.

8. Net-related shenanigans, such as ping and desync, can in fact cuase things to appear different than they actually are. Have you tried retesting solo, to eliminate network tomfoolery from the equation?

There are a lot of potential factors involved, and while I was able to inconsistently trigger this sort of issue, it was nowhere NEAR as drastic as what you are claiming it to be. FTR, when shooting at the targets, I was aiming at the center of the target, just under and to the side of the 'handgun' logo printed on the (from user pov) left side of the target.

What I did discover conclusively, is that varying my double-tap rate, had drastic effects on how far apart the shots landed. Sounds like a 'well duh!' captain obvious comment, but also contains the solution to your 'issue'.


I have in fact fired handguns IRL, and can state quite confidently, that rapid firing handguns will not get you just a straight line of impacts going upward. You will see drifting to the sides, but also often to the bottom as well, depending on how the shooter is reacting to the kick and how they are handling their wrists. While mechanically it seems weird to have that be a factor in GB, I don't see it as unrealisitc in the slightest for someone anticipating the kick or rapidly trying to pull the trigger and release it, to see a bit of downward drift from the motions of their own muscles. Especially with something like a 9mm that doesn't really have any kick in the first place.

[KrisRedbeard]

Yes, firing faster then the animation and/or recoil cycle would cause this sort of issue.
Each shot also slightly shifts where you were aiming too.
This is only really noticeable with higher magnification optics.

[ShinUon]

Originally posted by KrisRedbeard:

Yes, firing faster then the animation and/or recoil cycle would cause this sort of issue.
Each shot also slightly shifts where you were aiming too.
This is only really noticeable with higher magnification optics.

Will this bug be fixed? It's been 3 months since I noticed this and in a duo coop we continue to both notice this issue.

Double tapping quickly with a pistol causes the second shot to go low instead of high. I have to fire more slowly for it to not happen, but it's not really a double tap at that point.

[z3d*kfa]

In 1031 second shot was too high, now it's too low (1032). And it was reported in GB discord several times! Looks like developers missed IRL pistol training such as infamous "Mozambique Drill". Which is a shame, because I thought we're playing as highly trained CIA operatives. Contact your advisers! (if you have real ones)

Originally posted by ShinUon:

Will this bug be fixed? It's been 3 months since I noticed this and in a duo coop we continue to both notice this issue.
Double tapping quickly with a pistol causes the second shot to go low instead of high. I have to fire more slowly for it to not happen, but it's not really a double tap at that point.

I'm willing to bet that QOL priorities for this game have been relegated to the back burner because of more tactical gear and graphics.

[KrisRedbeard]

Originally posted by ShinUon:

Will this bug be fixed?

Not a bug :|
Point of aim shift and shooting mid recoil cycle is intentional.
Apologies for not being clear enough last time.

[ShinUon]

Originally posted by KrisRedbeard:

Originally posted by ShinUon:

Will this bug be fixed?

Not a bug :|
Point of aim shift and shooting mid recoil cycle is intentional.
Apologies for not being clear enough last time.

I would argue the second shot in a double tap going down is a sign of a poor shooter jerking the pistol.

[Farsa]

Originally posted by ShinUon:

Originally posted by KrisRedbeard:

Not a bug :|
Point of aim shift and shooting mid recoil cycle is intentional.
Apologies for not being clear enough last time.

I would argue the second shot in a double tap going down is a sign of a poor shooter jerking the pistol.

Instead of taking the L and realising the real issue is your own timing and your inability to adapt it, you suggest the devs change the game just to appease you?

Jesus...

[ShinUon]

Originally posted by Oak:

Originally posted by ShinUon:

I would argue the second shot in a double tap going down is a sign of a poor shooter jerking the pistol.

Instead of taking the L and realising the real issue is your own timing and your inability to adapt it, you suggest the devs change the game just to appease you?

Jesus...

I'm asking the devs to make double taps work as you'd expect from a trained shooter.

The second shot should not go so incredibly low like it does not now. In the ready room's shooting range, if I try to double tap center mass at the 12 meter targets, the second shot goes so low it misses the target.

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by ShinUon:

Originally posted by Oak:

Instead of taking the L and realising the real issue is your own timing and your inability to adapt it, you suggest the devs change the game just to appease you?

Jesus...

I'm asking the devs to make double taps work as you'd expect from a trained shooter.

The second shot should not go so incredibly low like it does not now. In the ready room's shooting range, if I try to double tap center mass at the 12 meter targets, the second shot goes so low it misses the target.

Literally did testing, as I indicated earlier in this thread. I could not get a double tap to deviate noticeably without use of an autocliker. Stop hyperbolizing, or acknowledge it's something you in particular are doing wrong.

The entire 'cause' for this double-tap issue is cadence/rhythm of fire. There is nothing they can do in-game to alter that, when the issue is being introduced solely by player actions. You've been told what the solution to it is, which is to adjust your clickrate to something that isn't absurd so that the problem doesn't occur. Alternatively, learn to adjust your aim after the first shot to counter the change in point of the barrel.
Even the fastest speed-shooters in the world still have to maintain a rhythm in their firing to keep the gun on target when firing like that, and that is WITH custom guns that are balanced and weighted for speed shooting, that they spend a LOT of time practicing with. They aren't going to be pulling it of with some random M9 or Sig off an armory shelf.

[ShinUon]

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Originally posted by ShinUon:

I'm asking the devs to make double taps work as you'd expect from a trained shooter.

The second shot should not go so incredibly low like it does not now. In the ready room's shooting range, if I try to double tap center mass at the 12 meter targets, the second shot goes so low it misses the target.

Literally did testing, as I indicated earlier in this thread. I could not get a double tap to deviate noticeably without use of an autocliker. Stop hyperbolizing, or acknowledge it's something you in particular are doing wrong.

The entire 'cause' for this double-tap issue is cadence/rhythm of fire. There is nothing they can do in-game to alter that, when the issue is being introduced solely by player actions. You've been told what the solution to it is, which is to adjust your clickrate to something that isn't absurd so that the problem doesn't occur. Alternatively, learn to adjust your aim after the first shot to counter the change in point of the barrel.
Even the fastest speed-shooters in the world still have to maintain a rhythm in their firing to keep the gun on target when firing like that, and that is WITH custom guns that are balanced and weighted for speed shooting, that they spend a LOT of time practicing with. They aren't going to be pulling it of with some random M9 or Sig off an armory shelf.

I am shooting at a very human speed without needing an auto-clicker. I tested this with a friend in coop in the ready room's shooting range and we both experience it. I noticed my second shot always missing and only confirmed it was going low when I spotted my friend's shots from the side.

And when I am doing more than 2 shot strings, I use a rhythm. I mention that in this thread:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/16900/discussions/0/3445835585849430929/

I can manage 1-2-3-4-5 shot strings easily on non-pistol weapons. But pistols throw the second shot very low.

And to counter it with my aim is counter-intuitive. I would have to force my point of aim UP to land my second shot. With non-pistol weapons in GB (and any other game), you'd be trying to force the weapon down to counter the recoil. Even if I did try to force my weapon up so my second shot does not hit low, it is hard to tell how much to force my weapon up by as the low point of aim is not observable by the animation.

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by ShinUon:

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Literally did testing, as I indicated earlier in this thread. I could not get a double tap to deviate noticeably without use of an autocliker. Stop hyperbolizing, or acknowledge it's something you in particular are doing wrong.

The entire 'cause' for this double-tap issue is cadence/rhythm of fire. There is nothing they can do in-game to alter that, when the issue is being introduced solely by player actions. You've been told what the solution to it is, which is to adjust your clickrate to something that isn't absurd so that the problem doesn't occur. Alternatively, learn to adjust your aim after the first shot to counter the change in point of the barrel.
Even the fastest speed-shooters in the world still have to maintain a rhythm in their firing to keep the gun on target when firing like that, and that is WITH custom guns that are balanced and weighted for speed shooting, that they spend a LOT of time practicing with. They aren't going to be pulling it of with some random M9 or Sig off an armory shelf.

I am shooting at a very human speed without needing an auto-clicker. I tested this with a friend in coop in the ready room's shooting range and we both experience it. I noticed my second shot always missing and only confirmed it was going low when I spotted my friend's shots from the side.

And when I am doing more than 2 shot strings, I use a rhythm. I mention that in this thread:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/16900/discussions/0/3445835585849430929/

I can manage 1-2-3-4-5 shot strings easily on non-pistol weapons. But pistols throw the second shot very low.

And to counter it with my aim is counter-intuitive. I would have to force my point of aim UP to land my second shot. With non-pistol weapons in GB (and any other game), you'd be trying to force the weapon down to counter the recoil.

Meanwhile, my own experiments show that it requires extremely fast clicking to get consistent deviation, and that it is nowhere near as bad as you keep claiming, while NOONE else has validated that they encounter the issue, let alone to the degree you claim it to be occurring, with the singular exception of a poster who's post seems more about talking ♥♥♥♥ about the devs than actually trying to be helpful. You've even gotten confirmation from developers as to why it is happening and what the solution is.

I can boot up the game, right now, and go to the ready room and fast 1-2 in the exact same conditions as what I did in the previous testing, and get a different result, again, from what you claim (literally just went and did it before hitting post here). That tells me that it is a problem with something YOU are doing on your end, not an issue with the game.

You've had it explained to you why it happens, and the mechanism by which it does so is in fact entirely realistic. Stop spamming on the trigger totally ignoring the animations VISUALLY SHOWING YOU the gun hasn't returned to neutral yet, and you will find the problem disappearing.
EDIT:
This is not COD, the bullet comes out of the barrel, not the shooter's eyes. The actual position of the barrel is more important than where you think the crosshair is supposed to be.

[ShinUon]

I am trying to report what I am experiencing as an issue. If you can't reproduce, okay but doesn't mean it can't be done.

Video demonstration below to illustrate what I am seeing:
https://i.imgur.com/vmHorLp.mp4

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by ShinUon:

I am trying to report what I am experiencing as an issue. If you can't reproduce, okay but doesn't mean it can't be done.

Video demonstration below to illustrate what I am seeing:
https://i.imgur.com/vmHorLp.mp4

Except for the part where 'what you are experiencing' isn't an issue. It's a self-inflicted problem, not a bug, and has already been acknowledged as such by the devs. This is ignoring that you gave the example of MK 25, but then in your video you are using an M9, and also have DEMONSTRATED, in your own video, that it is a result of you trying to fire too fast.