Maruki was right and the Phantom Thieves are a bunch of naive, holier-than-thou, stuck up, kids

[Bill]

The original Persona 5's story is very satisfying because there is very little left that need to be added. The hero grew powerful, villians where defeated, twist where revealed, God died, the metaverse is destroyed, everything is back to normal. Great. Loved it.

Royal unfortunately just had to find a way to extend the story somehow to sell more copies and extend the metaverse just a little longer for one more boss battle. It wasn't a good or logical addition. If you remove the whole arc with Maruki, the whole story still worked.

The central message in Royale is completely convoluted and illogical. Imagine if we suddenly discovered a way to fix some trauma tomorrow like cancer or AIDS, would the Phantom Thieves destroy that research because we need suffer in "reality"? I don't know about you but "reality" is anything that's real. Since Maruki have merged the metaverse with the real reality in game, then any changes he make is in reality, how is that any faker than anything else in that universe at that point?

Who give the Phantom Thieves the right to denie billions of people around the world happiness just so they should suffer? "You should suffer because that's your 'reality'. " What a bunch of holier-than-thou, stuck up, and naïve children.

Also why Atlas made Maruki so likable and benevolent, the whole game I was agreeing with everything he said. It's rare in a game to make the villain so likable. Like what, he is suppose to be worse than any politician who wouldn't give 2-cent about your happiness and actively work against your well-being in reality, but this guy who genuinely want to see everyone happy is a threat to the world??

Completely illogical.

Atlas had to find some way to extend a story that have already ended satisfyingly in P5 so they could sell copies, and this is the best they came up with. Shame really.

[LouisKM124]

I am brain dead when you said "the central message in Royale is completely convoluted and illogical" because the central message is the exact same as in og which is rebellion and fighting for you own future by yourselves. Maruki as a new character is proved to be much more threatening boss than Yaldabaoth. When you think about it really carefully, Maruki is doing the exact thing like Yaldabaoth but he did a better job. He actually was able to convince the thieves that his reality is better. But the truth is that his version of reality is just a twisted version of Yaldabaoth's reality with him being the god this time. Accepting Maruki's reality is the same as accepting Yaldabaoth's reality, which you end up being a puppet in both reality. And you just prove my point of Maruki is a much better final boss because "Maruki being so likable and benevolent" makes it much more difficult to refuse his reality than Yaldabaoth's.

[As}{tray]

Escrito originalmente por louislamkm:

I am brain dead when you said "the central message in Royale is completely convoluted and illogical" because the central message is the exact same as in og which is rebellion and fighting for you own future by yourselves. Maruki as a new character is proved to be much more threatening boss than Yaldabaoth. When you think about it really carefully, Maruki is doing the exact thing like Yaldabaoth but he did a better job. He actually was able to convince the thieves that his reality is better. But the truth is that his version of reality is just a twisted version of Yaldabaoth's reality with him being the god this time. Accepting Maruki's reality is the same as accepting Yaldabaoth's reality, which you end up being a puppet in both reality. And you just prove my point of Maruki is a much better final boss because "Maruki being so likable and benevolent" makes it much more difficult to refuse his reality than Yaldabaoth's.

The only difference being, this time Joker fights for, well, his own future, even if it means destroying his friends' lives. Even the game can't ultimately answer you what's so wrong with finally achieving the "good ending" you aimed for for the entire OG game, if it's handed to you by Maruki. He basically did everything Phantom Thieves tried to achieve, but way more efficient — yet Joker and his new serial killer friend are unsatisfied with this result because... well, the game never even tells you. Not even once a single flaw on Maruki's side was actually shown. Claims like "oh he would've just became corrupt by power later yada yada" have no basis whatsoever.
OG game was "rebellion against the injustices of the world". DLC is "rebellion simply for the sake of rebellion".

[LouisKM124]

Escrito originalmente por Ashtray:

Escrito originalmente por louislamkm:

I am brain dead when you said "the central message in Royale is completely convoluted and illogical" because the central message is the exact same as in og which is rebellion and fighting for you own future by yourselves. Maruki as a new character is proved to be much more threatening boss than Yaldabaoth. When you think about it really carefully, Maruki is doing the exact thing like Yaldabaoth but he did a better job. He actually was able to convince the thieves that his reality is better. But the truth is that his version of reality is just a twisted version of Yaldabaoth's reality with him being the god this time. Accepting Maruki's reality is the same as accepting Yaldabaoth's reality, which you end up being a puppet in both reality. And you just prove my point of Maruki is a much better final boss because "Maruki being so likable and benevolent" makes it much more difficult to refuse his reality than Yaldabaoth's.

The only difference being, this time Joker fights for, well, his own future, even if it means destroying his friends' lives. Even the game can't ultimately answer you what's so wrong with finally achieving the "good ending" you aimed for for the entire OG game, if it's handed to you by Maruki. He basically did everything Phantom Thieves tried to achieve, but way more efficient — yet Joker and his new serial killer friend are unsatisfied with this result because... well, the game never even tells you. Not even once a single flaw on Maruki's side was actually shown. Claims like "oh he would've just became corrupt by power later yada yada" have no basis whatsoever.
OG game was "rebellion against the injustices of the world". DLC is "rebellion simply for the sake of rebellion".

I would say that in the true ending Joker reminds his teammate what they have acheived and grown so far. If Joker didn't wake up, the whole phantom thief journey will become meaningless. It's also the only way to truly save sumire from her past.

[ZiffyHead]

To me, it's about accepting harsh reality and rejecting the "fake reality" fantasies offered by the false saviors of the world.

The original story seems to be about powerful people corrupting reality for their own gain and social media being the ultimate tool to do so.

Whereas the second part is to declare that manufactured reality is bad, even when created by good people with the best of intentions.

[Yílõng Má]

Escrito originalmente por ZiffyHead:

To me, it's about accepting harsh reality and rejecting the "fake reality" fantasies offered by the false saviors of the world.

The original story seems to be about powerful people corrupting reality for their own gain and social media being the ultimate tool to do so.

Whereas the second part is to declare that manufactured reality is bad, even when created by good people with the best of intentions.

But how are you sure that our current reality isn't just created by a previous "Maruki"? If Maruki creates a new reality, it's not a fake, but it becomes the true new reality.

[LouisKM124]

Escrito originalmente por Yílõng Má:

Escrito originalmente por ZiffyHead:

To me, it's about accepting harsh reality and rejecting the "fake reality" fantasies offered by the false saviors of the world.

The original story seems to be about powerful people corrupting reality for their own gain and social media being the ultimate tool to do so.

Whereas the second part is to declare that manufactured reality is bad, even when created by good people with the best of intentions.

But how are you sure that our current reality isn't just created by a previous "Maruki"? If Maruki creates a new reality, it's not a fake, but it becomes the true new reality.

Doesn't matter if the current reality is created by a previous "god" because it's the reality where phantom thief journey started. And someone is trying to deny it by giving what they think is best to others. But here's is something to notice. WHAT YOU WANT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S THE BEST FOR YOU. Sumire is the great example for that. Sumire wanted to become Kasumi because she thought Kasumi is better than her. But the truth is that Kasumi treat her as rival. If you pay attention to her confidant, Sumire can achieve the same or probably higher height than Kasumi in future, and most importantly not being trapped by the past. If Surmire stays as Kasumi, she would never surpass the real Kasumi and be her true self, thus Maruki failed to see the potential outcome of people overcoming barriers that can be actually better than his "perfect reality".