Maruki was right and the Phantom Thieves are a bunch of naive, holier-than-thou, stuck up, kids

[Bill]

The original Persona 5's story is very satisfying because there is very little left that need to be added. The hero grew powerful, villians where defeated, twist where revealed, God died, the metaverse is destroyed, everything is back to normal. Great. Loved it.

Royal unfortunately just had to find a way to extend the story somehow to sell more copies and extend the metaverse just a little longer for one more boss battle. It wasn't a good or logical addition. If you remove the whole arc with Maruki, the whole story still worked.

The central message in Royale is completely convoluted and illogical. Imagine if we suddenly discovered a way to fix some trauma tomorrow like cancer or AIDS, would the Phantom Thieves destroy that research because we need suffer in "reality"? I don't know about you but "reality" is anything that's real. Since Maruki have merged the metaverse with the real reality in game, then any changes he make is in reality, how is that any faker than anything else in that universe at that point?

Who give the Phantom Thieves the right to denie billions of people around the world happiness just so they should suffer? "You should suffer because that's your 'reality'. " What a bunch of holier-than-thou, stuck up, and naïve children.

Also why Atlas made Maruki so likable and benevolent, the whole game I was agreeing with everything he said. It's rare in a game to make the villain so likable. Like what, he is suppose to be worse than any politician who wouldn't give 2-cent about your happiness and actively work against your well-being in reality, but this guy who genuinely want to see everyone happy is a threat to the world??

Completely illogical.

Atlas had to find some way to extend a story that have already ended satisfyingly in P5 so they could sell copies, and this is the best they came up with. Shame really.

[As}{tray]

Lynfinity původně napsal:

Ashtray původně napsal:

he is not brainwashing or "controlling" anyone, he listens to what people desire and makes it happen, simple as that.

And that's the problem. He's just letting the whole world run away from its problems, just like he did, instead of actually solving them. Spoiler if you've not reached that part yet: it's the exact same thing he did to Sumire - through his powers he made her believe she's Kasumi and laid before her a life full of lies, instead of helping her recover. You cannot tell me with a straight face that a false reality like that is a good thing.

It's literally what psychologists/psychotherapists do. Sometimes your problem just cannot be "solved", so the only thing you can is cope or shut them off.
Also, if we think about it, in his world Kasumi should've simply be alive — because that's what Sumire would truly wish for. He only tried to make her forget precisely because in real world, there was no other way for Sumire to overcome what happened. So, by your own logics, his world is a great thing, because instead of simply running from/ignoring your problems, you make them go away for real.

[allknowingeel]

Ashtray původně napsal:

Lynfinity původně napsal:

And that's the problem. He's just letting the whole world run away from its problems, just like he did, instead of actually solving them. Spoiler if you've not reached that part yet: it's the exact same thing he did to Sumire - through his powers he made her believe she's Kasumi and laid before her a life full of lies, instead of helping her recover. You cannot tell me with a straight face that a false reality like that is a good thing.

It's literally what psychologists/psychotherapists do. Sometimes your problem just cannot be "solved", so the only thing you can is cope or shut them off.
Also, if we think about it, in his world Kasumi should've simply be alive — because that's what Sumire would truly wish for. He only tried to make her forget precisely because in real world, there was no other way for Sumire to overcome what happened. So, by your own logics, his world is a great thing, because instead of simply running from/ignoring your problems, you make them go away for real.

Speaking as a psychology student who does plan to go into Clinical psychology, this isn't healthy. It is pure denial, and like I keep sayng, WHEN HE DIES, THINGS WILL GO BACK TO HOW THEY WERE ANYWAY, IT IS JUST RUNNING AWAY FROM YOUR PROBLEMS UNTIL THEY COME BACK ANYWAY.

Also, Sumire did overcome what happened at the end of the game.

[ZiffyHead]

How does it work, if everybody gets what they want...

So nobody ever dies, as long as someone wants them to live badly enough?
How about pets, do they not die either?
Moms will get stuck cleaning up pet waste and feeding them for the rest of eternity?
If people really don't want animals being used for food, then what is everybody eating?

Who gets their way when two or more people want the same or opposing things?
Do all of the candidates for every political office all win each election?
Does every new law both pass and fail?
Does every player on every team win the championship and get to be the MVP?
Does everybody at work suddenly become the boss or will they all just win the lottery?

Does that mean I have to share Ann with Mona?.... and half the city!?

[As}{tray]

ZiffyHead původně napsal:

How does it work, if everybody gets what they want...

So nobody ever dies, as long as someone wants them to live badly enough?
How about pets, do they not die either?
Moms will get stuck cleaning up pet waste and feeding them for the rest of eternity?
If people really don't want animals being used for food, then what is everybody eating?

Who gets their way when two or more people want the same or opposing things?
Do all of the candidates for every political office all win each election?
Does every new law both pass and fail?
Does every player on every team win the championship and get to be the MVP?
Does everybody at work suddenly become the boss or will they all just win the lottery?

Does that mean I have to share Ann with Mona?.... and half the city!?

Yes, this is why this writing is ridiculous. In contrast to quite well-thought main game, 3rd act doesn't hold up to basic questions, and for some reason main characters refuse to even ask them.

[As}{tray]

allknowingeel původně napsal:

Ashtray původně napsal:

It's literally what psychologists/psychotherapists do. Sometimes your problem just cannot be "solved", so the only thing you can is cope or shut them off.
Also, if we think about it, in his world Kasumi should've simply be alive — because that's what Sumire would truly wish for. He only tried to make her forget precisely because in real world, there was no other way for Sumire to overcome what happened. So, by your own logics, his world is a great thing, because instead of simply running from/ignoring your problems, you make them go away for real.

Speaking as a psychology student who does plan to go into Clinical psychology, this isn't healthy. It is pure denial, and like I keep sayng, WHEN HE DIES, THINGS WILL GO BACK TO HOW THEY WERE ANYWAY, IT IS JUST RUNNING AWAY FROM YOUR PROBLEMS UNTIL THEY COME BACK ANYWAY.

Also, Sumire did overcome what happened at the end of the game.

So, how does Mona becoming human is a denial? How does Futaba and Makoto and Haru getting their parents back is a denial?

Also, as I have already said

Ashtray původně napsal:

I don't think Maruki can die at this point, since the game already threw words like "god" at you quite a few times.

His Palace literally can bring dead back to life (however stupid this concept might be). Do you seriously think he himself would just go and simply die, ending the world he tried so hard to create?

[GeminiEclipse]

It's denial because they are dead.

It can't bring dead people back alive, because they aren't actually alive and who they were. It's just memories of who people were fitting into a mould.

Pain is an important part of who we are as conscious living beings. It might have been painful for me to realise I'm an idiot (a kind way to describe myself and my stupidity), but I would have never grown without that realisation.

Why should I be held back by someone else's will because he doesn't think I'm strong enough?

[As}{tray]

GeminiEclipse původně napsal:

It's denial because they are dead.

It can't bring dead people back alive, because they aren't actually alive and who they were. It's just memories of who people were fitting into a mould.

No, they are actually fully alive, not "copies" or "illusions" or something. It is directly stated in the game.
So if you think about it, by making his friends remember, Joker kinda "kills" their relatives himself.

GeminiEclipse původně napsal:

Pain is an important part of who we are as conscious living beings.

There are different kinds of pain. And different kinds of people. For some, tragedies they face are too much to handle.
Also, if you think that your pain is important for you to be happy, then I don't think it's gonna be erased by his world.

[GeminiEclipse]

I don't know how anyone could be alive missing most of what made them who they are. Or I guess who they would be. Maybe that's just a fiction thing and that because "god" they don't worry about the massive gaps in their memories from when they don't exist until they do.

They also all disappeared without any real effect. They were dream people controlled by god more than real people. Nobody outside of the few special will remember that other dream.

Pain didn't make me happy though. It made me a more mature person. It's far more important for me to have matured instead of being ignorant, childish and selfish.

I don't see how tragedies being too hard to face for some means no one should face tragedy ever.

[Jimmy Rustler]

NAIVE IS THE CRUELEST OF WORDS

[allknowingeel]

GeminiEclipse původně napsal:

Pain didn't make me happy though. It made me a more mature person. It's far more important for me to have matured instead of being ignorant, childish and selfish.

I don't see how tragedies being too hard to face for some means no one should face tragedy ever.

Agreed, no one should take these out of life.

[Apollyon]

lol, it looks like most user here having a bad effin life but cant or bother to change,fix, etc yourself and just run away from it.

For example, This is like a fat and ugly weeb who never bother to train him/her self and stuck in your basement, then feel jealous and mad that someone is fit and healthy.

it's not wrong, when some user here call it "DENIAL", i mean you EFFIN ARE. FACE YOUR DAMN PROBLEM AND STOP RUNNNING AWAY FROM IT.

Facing reality is indeed hurt and painful and i don't like it either, but it make me a better person. whatever you do rn is completely denial, ignorant, naive and childish. GROW UP -_-

maruki is not a effin god, he is human and human always succumb by their own desire or power, etc.. and also his plan is really flawed, but im not gonna explain it because some user here already explain it.

sorry for the harsh word.

and sorry for bad english, i never studied english and only learn it by watching or playing english sub/dub game and movies.

[As}{tray]

Apollyon původně napsal:

lol, it looks like all the user here having a bad effin life but cant or bother to change,fix, etc yourself and just run away from it.

For example, This is like a fat and ugly weeb who never bother to train him/her self and stuck in your basement, then feel jealous and mad that someone is fit and healthy.

it's not wrong, when some user here call it "DENIAL", i mean you EFFIN ARE. FACE YOUR DAMN PROBLEM AND STOP RUNNNING AWAY FROM IT.

Facing reality is indeed hurt and painful and i don't like it either, but it make me a better person. whatever you do rn is completely denial, ignorant, naive and childish. GROW UP -_-

maruki is not a effin god, he is human and human always succumb by their own desire or power, etc.. and also his plan is really flawed, but im not gonna explain it because some user here already explain it.

sorry for the harsh word.

and sorry for bad english, i never studied english and only learn it by watching or playing english sub/dub game and movies.

Imagine trying to troll but the only thing you can do is project lol

[allknowingeel]

Ashtray původně napsal:

Apollyon původně napsal:

lol, it looks like all the user here having a bad effin life but cant or bother to change,fix, etc yourself and just run away from it.

For example, This is like a fat and ugly weeb who never bother to train him/her self and stuck in your basement, then feel jealous and mad that someone is fit and healthy.

it's not wrong, when some user here call it "DENIAL", i mean you EFFIN ARE. FACE YOUR DAMN PROBLEM AND STOP RUNNNING AWAY FROM IT.

Facing reality is indeed hurt and painful and i don't like it either, but it make me a better person. whatever you do rn is completely denial, ignorant, naive and childish. GROW UP -_-

maruki is not a effin god, he is human and human always succumb by their own desire or power, etc.. and also his plan is really flawed, but im not gonna explain it because some user here already explain it.

sorry for the harsh word.

and sorry for bad english, i never studied english and only learn it by watching or playing english sub/dub game and movies.

Imagine trying to troll but the only thing you can do is project lol

I don't think the're projecting, they give an example of a possible person. Then they say their own opinion of it. That's not projecting.

[As}{tray]

allknowingeel původně napsal:

Ashtray původně napsal:

Imagine trying to troll but the only thing you can do is project lol

I don't think the're projecting, they give an example of a possible person. Then they say their own opinion of it. That's not projecting.

Your alt account?
Anyway, he burged in stating that "everyone here" smh fit an image he has in his head. Given how detailed it was, and how vocal he was about it, it is most likely a heavy projecting.

[allknowingeel]

Ashtray původně napsal:

allknowingeel původně napsal:

I don't think the're projecting, they give an example of a possible person. Then they say their own opinion of it. That's not projecting.

Your alt account?
Anyway, he burged in stating that "everyone here" smh fit an image he has in his head. Given how detailed it was, and how vocal he was about it, it is most likely a heavy projecting.

I thought that they meant all the users calling Maruki correct, there is a language gap after all, look at it carefully "it looks like all the user here having a bad effin life but cant or bother to change,fix, etc yourself and just run away from it". The syntax makes it look like they are reffering specifically to the users who claim Maruki is right. They later go on to say how certain users call Maruki's actions denial, which means that they can't mean all users as some do see it as denial. Also, no I am not this users alt account, what gave you that idea?