Today would be a great day to remove Denvuo

[FallCoffee]

The game has been out for a while. No reason to keep Denuvo.

[Dopey Shepard]

Originally posted by Proxy:

Originally posted by Dopey Shepard:

These people can't be argued with. They have denuvo derangement syndrome or smth. Anything that ever goes wrong with their game - they just blame it all on denuvo. Why? Because it's the easy way out. No need to understand any specifics of the matter, just blame the thing that some minority of people are so overly obsessed with.

I mean, the jokes write themselves. "Denuvo makes the game chug super hard in populated areas (especially in kichijoji) and i've tried every online solution to fix the chugging"

Wow, so his game lags.... in populated areas... where it's literally supposed to be slower than everywhere else. This person probably has no idea that their CPU is most likely the culprit here as its high usage can quite clearly be observed by MSI Afterburner, and the fact that the port is not super ideal

I have i3 10100 and it barely drops anywhere below 60 fps, even in populated areas. Denuvo has absolutely NO impact on this particular game, whether these people like it or not

Are you developer or a programmer that has attempted in any ways make security algorithm or did you take a part into implementing Denuvo into this game to make the claim that "Denuvo has absolutely NO impact"?

Please do present some kind of proof that Denuvo negatively impacts THIS specific game. I don't think you will find any. Most issues people have with this game is imperfect port of this game that refuses to work well with people with RTX 40 series cards or other high end cards. Also, it is CPU-bound with FPS getting below 60 in very crowded areas. My CPU is only budget i3 10100 and I don't think I ever fell below 50 fps in any area and my FPS otherwise is 120 and beyond with RX 580

Yes, Denuvo can be implemented rather well if they try. That's not always the case as is evident by Hogwarts Legacy or Arkham Knight or others, but many other games aren't necessarily impacted

Originally posted by messanoir:

Ok, so first, my specs:

Ryzen 7 5700X3D with a 360mm AIO
32Gb DDR4 4400 (running at 3800mhz)
ASRock RX6700XT 12GB
Windows 11 Pro 24H2
All drivers are most current
OS is on one NVMe drive and games are on a second one.
Monitor: 1440p 100mhz 29 in.

Running game at all max settings, I have no noticeable performance impact on the game from anything, game runs smoothly, even when watching YouTube videos or movies at the same time.

Now of course that's just my word, take it or leave it. However, I would be happy to record a video of the game-play, using whatever metric recording of anyone's choice or suggestion (I'll admit I normally use MSI Afterburner, but I'm open to other options if people want)

If need be, to prevent the argument of "the video could be of some other game-play, or was edited, etc, I could also do a live-stream of the game being played as well if anyone wants.

If you don't like Denuvo, that's fine, I am not trying to change peoples opinions of it, but that doesn't make it the cause of every issue people might have with the game, especially when not everyone has that issue.

You should be absolutely fine with your specs as it is AMD GPU that you have. From what I've seen myself, it's mostly people with high end GPUs of Nvidia side reporting various issues. Seems like AMD gets a pass with this one. I myself with obsolete RX580 have no issues as well as many other people. It's no wonder this title has more than 95% score on Steam

If it was terribly optimized, it would be much lower for sure

Don't listen to these people that just dump all their problems on denuvo. They have nothing else to blame so they take the easiest target

[ϟG1gabzzzt3ϟ]

It's really great that Denuvo hasn't been removed or exe without it leaked yet (lol). If Denuvo were removed, I'd buy this game on the "green Steam," if you know what I mean.

[Proxy]

Originally posted by Dopey Shepard:

Originally posted by Proxy:

Are you developer or a programmer that has attempted in any ways make security algorithm or did you take a part into implementing Denuvo into this game to make the claim that "Denuvo has absolutely NO impact"?

Please do present some kind of proof that Denuvo negatively impacts THIS specific game. I don't think you will find any. Most issues people have with this game is imperfect port of this game that refuses to work well with people with RTX 40 series cards or other high end cards. Also, it is CPU-bound with FPS getting below 60 in very crowded areas. My CPU is only budget i3 10100 and I don't think I ever fell below 50 fps in any area and my FPS otherwise is 120 and beyond with RX 580

Yes, Denuvo can be implemented rather well if they try. That's not always the case as is evident by Hogwarts Legacy or Arkham Knight or others, but many other games aren't necessarily impacted

Originally posted by messanoir:

Ok, so first, my specs:

Ryzen 7 5700X3D with a 360mm AIO
32Gb DDR4 4400 (running at 3800mhz)
ASRock RX6700XT 12GB
Windows 11 Pro 24H2
All drivers are most current
OS is on one NVMe drive and games are on a second one.
Monitor: 1440p 100mhz 29 in.

Running game at all max settings, I have no noticeable performance impact on the game from anything, game runs smoothly, even when watching YouTube videos or movies at the same time.

Now of course that's just my word, take it or leave it. However, I would be happy to record a video of the game-play, using whatever metric recording of anyone's choice or suggestion (I'll admit I normally use MSI Afterburner, but I'm open to other options if people want)

If need be, to prevent the argument of "the video could be of some other game-play, or was edited, etc, I could also do a live-stream of the game being played as well if anyone wants.

If you don't like Denuvo, that's fine, I am not trying to change peoples opinions of it, but that doesn't make it the cause of every issue people might have with the game, especially when not everyone has that issue.

You should be absolutely fine with your specs as it is AMD GPU that you have. From what I've seen myself, it's mostly people with high end GPUs of Nvidia side reporting various issues. Seems like AMD gets a pass with this one. I myself with obsolete RX580 have no issues as well as many other people. It's no wonder this title has more than 95% score on Steam

If it was terribly optimized, it would be much lower for sure

Don't listen to these people that just dump all their problems on denuvo. They have nothing else to blame so they take the easiest target

Thanks for NOT answering my question at all, so let me start on my side.

I've been programming for over a decade and I've been working on projects that are twice as old as me or just start existing now, especially when it comes to security and in spare time I reverse engineer old games, including binaries that has SecuROM protection, sort of GOG does but for my purpose only, so you could say I have some experience with it.

On your part, you are correct that it probably is the hardware part. Processor does it all, but you are wrong thinking, that just because it works perfectly for you, it does have to work perfectly for everyone else. I am not going to the depths that each silicion is different, but each model and manufacturer has it's ways and could really make the flop.

It would be dumb to blame it on Denuvo, but if we are talking that compability is huge problem, and then expecting Denuvo does mitigate or doesn't worsen the situation is ignorant.

I have not tested this with other computer as I don't have other computer to test it with, but I could compare PS5 version with the PC one, which on one side is dumb comparison given that Persona 5 Royal PC port could be sloppy at best, still don't like the fact that my machine is able to run 4k/144fps games at ultra ray-tracing constantly and has problems running smoothly at 60 fps at 1080p. Now that is probably thing of optimalisation, but we will see that once Denuvo gets removed.

Apparently Denuvo on start scanning hardware for any devices that doesn't have official signature.

Thing is that I make my own devices and gadgets, which is kind of my hobby as I explained and of course I don't have the official signatures for the firmware or the driver. Imagine that my devices are supposed to be on at all times and gets disconnected and removed configuration if denuvo protection kicks in, which is just great. So great I think that this deserves it's own lawsuit.

I'll repeat my question. Are you somehow connected into creating Denuvo DRM protection or not? Because obviously you speak from the knowledge of god, knowing everything at absolute best if you are not. Or you are just Mr. Always Right who has to argue to prove he is Mr. Always Right?

[Dopey Shepard]

Originally posted by ϟG1gabzzzt3ϟ:

It's really great that Denuvo hasn't been removed or exe without it leaked yet (lol). If Denuvo were removed, I'd buy this game on the "green Steam," if you know what I mean.

I know what you mean, but why green? Like, I can't understand the reference at all

Thanks for NOT answering my question at all, so let me start on my side.

I've been programming for over a decade and I've been working on projects that are twice as old as me or just start existing now, especially when it comes to security and in spare time I reverse engineer old games, including binaries that has SecuROM protection, sort of GOG does but for my purpose only, so you could say I have some experience with it.

"I've been programming for over a decade" - random person on the Internet

Thing is that I make my own devices and gadgets, which is kind of my hobby as I explained and of course I don't have the official signatures for the firmware or the driver.

- Even more random person on the Internet's rambling

Imagine that my devices are supposed to be on at all times and gets disconnected and removed configuration, which is nice. So nice I think that this deserves it's own lawsuit.

Ok so where is it then? Go file it, if you think you are so smart. I bet others have thought about it before. I bet others have already failed after contacting a legitimate experienced lawyer with a presented case

Also, one is fully aware of Denuvo's presence on their game's official Steam store. So....you knew what you were getting into unless it was a case of Dying Light 2 where Denuvo was added THREE days prior to launch without notifying customers with their pre-orders. Even then I doubt that's any ground for a lawsuit, as sad as that may be

I mean, do you file lawsuits against server-based games because they don't let you play a game you bought due to unstable servers?

So to repeat my question. Are you Denuvo developer or not? Because if not, then I have no idea what you are talking about and you are here only to argue because you have nothing to do. Get your facts right, Mr. Always Right.

I am a random person on the Internet dot com, just like you. I did not believe a single word out of your mouth regarding your "credentials". Why should you believe anything I say with regards to your question? Also, it seems to me that you try to me a "Mr. Always Right" just as much as me, so... hypocrisy much? Dunno

[Proxy]

Originally posted by Dopey Shepard:

Originally posted by ϟG1gabzzzt3ϟ:

It's really great that Denuvo hasn't been removed or exe without it leaked yet (lol). If Denuvo were removed, I'd buy this game on the "green Steam," if you know what I mean.

I know what you mean, but why green? Like, I can't understand the reference at all

Thanks for NOT answering my question at all, so let me start on my side.

I've been programming for over a decade and I've been working on projects that are twice as old as me or just start existing now, especially when it comes to security and in spare time I reverse engineer old games, including binaries that has SecuROM protection, sort of GOG does but for my purpose only, so you could say I have some experience with it.

"I've been programming for over a decade" - random person on the Internet

Thing is that I make my own devices and gadgets, which is kind of my hobby as I explained and of course I don't have the official signatures for the firmware or the driver.

- Even more random person on the Internet's rambling

Imagine that my devices are supposed to be on at all times and gets disconnected and removed configuration, which is nice. So nice I think that this deserves it's own lawsuit.

Ok so where is it then? Go file it, if you think you are so smart. I bet others have thought about it before. I bet others have already failed after contacting a legitimate experienced lawyer with a presented case

Also, one is fully aware of Denuvo's presence on their game's official Steam store. So....you knew what you were getting into unless it was a case of Dying Light 2 where Denuvo was added THREE days prior to launch without notifying customers with their pre-orders. Even then I doubt that's any ground for a lawsuit, as sad as that may be

I mean, do you file lawsuits against server-based games because they don't let you play a game you bought due to unstable servers?

So to repeat my question. Are you Denuvo developer or not? Because if not, then I have no idea what you are talking about and you are here only to argue because you have nothing to do. Get your facts right, Mr. Always Right.

I am a random person on the Internet dot com, just like you. I did not believe a single word out of your mouth regarding your "credentials". Why should you believe anything I say with regards to your question? Also, it seems to me that you try to me a "Mr. Always Right" just as much as me, so... hypocrisy much? Dunno

You know what, you win. I won't argue with someone who probably holds god's wisdom despite living in mom's basement. There is a reason why no one wants to talk with you personally. Enjoy your whatever.

[Dopey Shepard]

Uhh ok? And I suppose the All-Seeing Deity like you surely knows who and when I personally interact with others?

Hilarious backtrack

[Tarotsu]

It would be nice to play this on the Steam Deck without Denuvo freaking out if I don't remember to "authenticate" to their servers.

[Dopey Shepard]

I hope this issue with steam deck gets resolved, for everybody's sake, without removing denuvo. PC players aren't hurting from it, only those on steamdeck

[Johan23t]

Originally posted by Mistie:

Denuvo hater sometime really look like beggars. "Devs please remove denuvo", "Denuvo is evil", "If you remove Denuvo i will buy game" "You don't wanna my money?". Stop it guys, you look ridiculous.

Game still not hacked yet, you can't find it in torrents and it's only because Denuvo. So it's a big reason to not remove it.

I don't know where you've been looking, but I can find plenty of torrented versions of P5R online.

[Dopey Shepard]

Originally posted by Johan23t:

Originally posted by Mistie:

Denuvo hater sometime really look like beggars. "Devs please remove denuvo", "Denuvo is evil", "If you remove Denuvo i will buy game" "You don't wanna my money?". Stop it guys, you look ridiculous.

Game still not hacked yet, you can't find it in torrents and it's only because Denuvo. So it's a big reason to not remove it.

I don't know where you've been looking, but I can find plenty of torrented versions of P5R online.

have you actually checked what those even are? Those are emulated from NSw, basically NOT PC versions, they will not have 120 fps/4k or the great modding support from PC. It's a night and day difference, I'd say. The PC version to this day remains uncracked and it should stay that way. Too many people want to get their hands on a free copy

[lukaself]

Originally posted by Dopey Shepard:

Originally posted by Johan23t:

I don't know where you've been looking, but I can find plenty of torrented versions of P5R online.

have you actually checked what those even are? Those are emulated from NSw, basically NOT PC versions, they will not have 120 fps/4k or the great modding support from PC. It's a night and day difference, I'd say. The PC version to this day remains uncracked and it should stay that way. Too many people want to get their hands on a free copy

If pirates had the means, let alone cared, to play in 120fps/4k, they'd have bought the game already.

[Dopey Shepard]

Originally posted by lukaself:

Originally posted by Dopey Shepard:

have you actually checked what those even are? Those are emulated from NSw, basically NOT PC versions, they will not have 120 fps/4k or the great modding support from PC. It's a night and day difference, I'd say. The PC version to this day remains uncracked and it should stay that way. Too many people want to get their hands on a free copy

If pirates had the means, let alone cared, to play in 120fps/4k, they'd have bought the game already.

so that's what you do, just troll around denuvo games' hubs, waiting for the "right" moment to strike? I mean, seriously, don't people of your hivemind have anything better to do? Denuvo ain't getting removed just because you keep telling them to remove it, you know

Also, your argument is just weird. You think all pirates are just broke who can't afford a 120 fps monitor especially nowadays? They are cheap. The game costs a lot of money, even with 60% discount, so they aren't getting it. Why would they get it when they can get smth for free? It's not a dollar or two.

[lukaself]

Originally posted by Dopey Shepard:

[...]Also, your argument is just weird. You think all pirates are just broke who can't afford a 120 fps monitor especially nowadays? They are cheap. The game costs a lot of money, even with 60% discount, so they aren't getting it. Why would they get it when they can get smth for free? It's not a dollar or two.

Ah, the rich pirates of Schrödinger—those rare unicorns who can afford 4K/120fps setups but no willingness to buy games. Sure, they might exist, but their numbers are so small they’re hardly worth the cost of expensive DRM. Anyone investing in premium hardware values their experience and is likely to pay for quality, To be fair, while there may be valid reasons to implement DRM, relying on this one feels like chasing a solution for an imaginary problem.

[Dopey Shepard]

Originally posted by lukaself:

Originally posted by Dopey Shepard:

[...]Also, your argument is just weird. You think all pirates are just broke who can't afford a 120 fps monitor especially nowadays? They are cheap. The game costs a lot of money, even with 60% discount, so they aren't getting it. Why would they get it when they can get smth for free? It's not a dollar or two.

Ah, the rich pirates of Schrödinger—those rare unicorns who can afford 4K/120fps setups but no willingness to buy games. Sure, they might exist, but their numbers are so small they’re hardly worth the cost of expensive DRM. Anyone investing in premium hardware values their experience and is likely to pay for quality, To be fair, while there may be valid reasons to implement DRM, relying on this one feels like chasing a solution for an imaginary problem. :clickbutton:

Again, you imagine things that aren't necessarily real. This particular game runs easily at 120 fps on obsolete GPUs like 1060/580, the benchmarks on YT are a proof of that

4k/120fps setup is NOT some kind of premium hardware. It's basically standard at this point. A 120+ fps monitor costs a tad more than 60 fps one. 4k cheap monitors aren't all that expensive either. This isn't 10 years ago when either were costly and if you wanted extra stuff like Gsync/Freesync, you had to pay even more for that kind of monitor. Now, nearly all high fps monitors have these features that you couldn't get that easily back in the day. Therefore, they are no longer premium features, or hardware, for that matter

Also, if you think about it from a pirate's perspective, it may look like this - "I just spent all my money on my rig, time to play some free games because I no longer have any money left over to buy them"

Problems are not imaginary, they are very much real. People aren't gonna be spending their money on a game that isn't even brand new, even at 60% off that it is now. Those people wanna get their hands on free stuff.

[lukaself]

Originally posted by Dopey Shepard:

[...]

Steam's hardware survey disagrees with the assessment that these "rich pirates" are common. 4K users make up less than 4% of the total number of users. While I’m not claiming that such users don't exist, it’s unlikely that they represent a large enough group to justify the implementation of expensive DRM, as Valve's survey indicates. This makes the reliance on DRM feel like a solution in search of a problem that is not as widespread as suggested.

Now, regarding your statement:

Also, if you think about it from a pirate's perspective, it may look like this - "I just spent all my money on my rig, time to play some free games because I no longer have any money left over to buy them

How does Denuvo factor into this? DRM or not, if pirates are out of money, adding Denuvo does not have the ability to change their purchasing decision —it simply inconveniences paying customers. DRM fails to deter pirates who are already determined to avoid paying, while it negatively impacts legitimate buyers, who are the ones who actually support the game financially. This makes DRM an ineffective solution to the core issue of piracy.