Is Igor the actual main antagonist of the Persona series?

[GATO ARABE]

Don't you all think it's a little sus how Igor is ALWAYS the one mentoring the protagonists throughout the series, to the point they are able to defeat literal gods?
I find it unlikely that he is doing that out of the kindness of his heart.
So what's the deal with him? Is he trying to become a god himself? (with the protagonists as his pupils, he'd be unstoppable)

[HORIZON]

According to megamitensei wiki he a doll create by some god and given life by magic so he question whether or not he a human that why he so fond of human and want to help them in order to find out what he is
PS: so far i only play 4 and 5 so anyone play 1-2 and know entire story just feel free and corrected me if i'm wrong, don't mine any spoilers

[Lamp]

Originally posted by HORIZON:

According to megamitensei wiki he a doll create by some god and given life by magic so he question whether or not he a human that why he so fond of human and want to help them in order to find out what he is
PS: so far i only play 4 and 5 so anyone play 1-2 and know entire story just feel free and corrected me if i'm wrong, don't mine any spoilers

Well having played a bunch of 3, all of 4 a few times and like 90% of 5 twice now I gotta say that sounds pretty legit. I did play some 1-2, but they're *very* dated nowadays, didn't get far.

Love how his maker for 5 was like "You know what? We're going Optimus on the voice this time."

[waku waku]

It's explained in Persona 2, though indeed not touched upon after it. Basically, Igor has a master, Philemon, who was stuck in a wager with a malevolent entity called Nyarlathotep, about whether humanity is going to destroy itself, with Philemon aiming to prove that they will avoid destruction no matter what Nyarlathotep throws at them. But Nyarlathotep was vastly more powerful, capable of influencing the world on a bigger scale, and Phielmon limited himself to acting as a helper and guide to the protagonists, in that game he was also helping to awaken their Personas, and he created Igor for the purpose of helping them hone their potential.

By the way, in that game, one of main methods of Nyarlathotep's influence on humanity was making rumors become reality, meaning if a rumor is spread far enough, it would become a real thing, regardless of how absurd it might be. Does this remind you of anything?

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by waku waku:

It's explained in Persona 2, though indeed not touched upon after it. Basically, Igor has a master, Philemon, who was stuck in a wager with a malevolent entity called Nyarlathotep, about whether humanity is going to destroy itself, with Philemon aiming to prove that they will avoid destruction no matter what Nyarlathotep throws at them. But Nyarlathotep was vastly more powerful, capable of influencing the world on a bigger scale, and Phielmon limited himself to acting as a helper and guide to the protagonists, in that game he was also helping to awaken their Personas, and he created Igor for the purpose of helping them hone their potential.

This more or less.

[qazimod]

Nyar and Phil were the two big players in IS/EP, but they don't get as much presence in the modern ones. Although there is a nod to Nyarlathotep at the end of Royal with one of the last bosses:

Azathoth, the penultimate boss of Royal, is the "father" or "master" of Nyarlathotep in Lovecraftian myth

[Louis Cypher]

Originally posted by waku waku:

By the way, in that game, one of main methods of Nyarlathotep's influence on humanity was making rumors become reality, meaning if a rumor is spread far enough, it would become a real thing, regardless of how absurd it might be. Does this remind you of anything?

It actually reminds me of our real world:
- alternative facts
- leftist propaganda
- rewriting history

Media nowadays can just claim something and people believe it is true, the critical ones are in minority and won’t get a platform.

[Nito]

Originally posted by qazimod:

Nyar and Phil were the two big players in IS/EP, but they don't get as much presence in the modern ones. Although there is a nod to Nyarlathotep at the end of Royal with one of the last bosses:

Azathoth, the penultimate boss of Royal, is the "father" or "master" of Nyarlathotep in Lovecraftian myth

A pity Personas are just Stands(personalities) and not the actual beings so....The Lucifer demon is WAAAAAAAYYYYYYY more powerful that the Lucifer Persona(Lucifer is even a multi dimensional being Nyx wouldn't even be a challenge to him) and only very early SMT and a few spin offs allow you to actually summon him

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by Nito:

Originally posted by qazimod:

Nyar and Phil were the two big players in IS/EP, but they don't get as much presence in the modern ones. Although there is a nod to Nyarlathotep at the end of Royal with one of the last bosses:

Azathoth, the penultimate boss of Royal, is the "father" or "master" of Nyarlathotep in Lovecraftian myth

A pity Personas are just Stands(personalities) and not the actual beings so....The Lucifer demon is WAAAAAAAYYYYYYY more powerful that the Lucifer Persona(Lucifer is even a multi dimensional being Nyx wouldn't even be a challenge to him) and only very early SMT and a few spin offs allow you to actually summon him

Well Nyx is in persona 3 at least, as the wiki says "an almighty, astronomical entity who appeared from outer space". She is not a manifestation of collective thought like many other persona bosses. So who would win? A fallen angel that has been beaten many times by multiple people or an alien entity that literally celestial body alien that is also known as a planet eater? She also is a being that cannot be killed and only sealed away ,

[ValentB]

Originally posted by Dirtyhands:

Originally posted by waku waku:

By the way, in that game, one of main methods of Nyarlathotep's influence on humanity was making rumors become reality, meaning if a rumor is spread far enough, it would become a real thing, regardless of how absurd it might be. Does this remind you of anything?

It actually reminds me of our real world:
- alternative facts
- leftist propaganda
- rewriting history

Media nowadays can just claim something and people believe it is true, the critical ones are in minority and won’t get a platform.

Or rightist trumpist qanon propaganda and same rewriting history like recent war in Ukraine.
Alt-right media can pull up any insane conspiracy and all those TRUTH KNOWING sheep people gonna eat it and believe it like crazy.

[Nito]

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

Well Nyx is in persona 3 at least, as the wiki says "an almighty, astronomical entity who appeared from outer space". She is not a manifestation of collective thought like many other persona bosses. So who would win? A fallen angel that has been beaten many times by multiple people or an alien entity that literally celestial body alien that is also known as a planet eater? She also is a being that cannot be killed and only sealed away ,

My brother in YHVH, Lucifer is a MULTIDIMENSIONAL BEING on the level of Demiurge that rewrite reality

Lucifer himself could destroy planets easily, the nyx not being able to be killed or destoyed is basically because Persona user really don't have enough fire power to blow up the moon

While main SMT is literally about Godhood the neutral ending of SJ MC is literally that

And Lucifer like YHVH are only a fraction of their actual existances on each universe, each of the YHVH that are killed are nothing compared to the one. the same as Lucy

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by Nito:

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

Well Nyx is in persona 3 at least, as the wiki says "an almighty, astronomical entity who appeared from outer space". She is not a manifestation of collective thought like many other persona bosses. So who would win? A fallen angel that has been beaten many times by multiple people or an alien entity that literally celestial body alien that is also known as a planet eater? She also is a being that cannot be killed and only sealed away ,

My brother in YHVH, Lucifer is a MULTIDIMENSIONAL BEING on the level of Demiurge that rewrite reality

Lucifer himself could destroy planets easily, the nyx not being able to be killed or destoyed is basically because Persona user really don't have enough fire power to blow up the moon

While main SMT is literally about Godhood the neutral ending of SJ MC is literally that

And Lucifer like YHVH are only a fraction of their actual existances on each universe, each of the YHVH that are killed are nothing compared to the one. the same as Lucy

Who said Lucifer can re-write reality?

It was stated that Nyx cannot be killed, it is not a question of firepower, it just cannot be done.

No real comment on your next point as I don't really see what you're trying to say.

Who is this one you are talking about? Yes if they are killed in one universe, it has no effect on the others. Even if they are only a fraction of their existence, then that just goes on to prove my point. If Lucifer were to fight Nyx, Lucifer would only be a fraction of his true strength since it is happening in a universe like you said.

But yeah, Nyx cannot be killed. So it may just be an endless battle with neither side being able to win.

[Nito]

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

[
Who said Lucifer can re-write reality?

It was stated that Nyx cannot be killed, it is not a question of firepower, it just cannot be done.

No real comment on your next point as I don't really see what you're trying to say.

Who is this one you are talking about? Yes if they are killed in one universe, it has no effect on the others. Even if they are only a fraction of their existence, then that just goes on to prove my point. If Lucifer were to fight Nyx, Lucifer would only be a fraction of his true strength since it is happening in a universe like you said.

But yeah, Nyx cannot be killed. So it may just be an endless battle with neither side being able to win.

Demiurge can and Lucifer is above him

Again Nyx came from outer space it is lack of power as to kill Nyx you would need to blow up the moon and again no Persona User has firepower for that and if an YHVH version can be killed not a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ chance Nyx can't be killed. EVEN a fraction of power of Lucifer is absurd As the Great Reason plays the 10 dimension chess with the Great Will and YHVH and Lucy get killed over the dimensions.

It is not A universe it is on INFINITE UNIVERSES it is like a piece of Hair that is the top dog of a universe

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by Nito:

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

[
Who said Lucifer can re-write reality?

It was stated that Nyx cannot be killed, it is not a question of firepower, it just cannot be done.

No real comment on your next point as I don't really see what you're trying to say.

Who is this one you are talking about? Yes if they are killed in one universe, it has no effect on the others. Even if they are only a fraction of their existence, then that just goes on to prove my point. If Lucifer were to fight Nyx, Lucifer would only be a fraction of his true strength since it is happening in a universe like you said.

But yeah, Nyx cannot be killed. So it may just be an endless battle with neither side being able to win.

Demiurge can and Lucifer is above him

Again Nyx came from outer space it is lack of power as to kill Nyx you would need to blow up the moon and again no Persona User has firepower for that and if an YHVH version can be killed not a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ chance Nyx can't be killed. EVEN a fraction of power of Lucifer is absurd As the Great Reason plays the 10 dimension chess with the Great Will and YHVH and Lucy get killed over the dimensions.

It is not A universe it is on INFINITE UNIVERSES it is like a piece of Hair that is the top dog of a universe

Just because the Demiurge can re-write reality, does not mean Lucifer can as well. He has never shown this ability in any megaten game/media to my knowledge.

How does blowing up the moon help kill Nyx?

Yes but if this fight were to take place, it would happen in a single universe. Or maybe it would happen in 2 universes or maybe more. The point is, we are talking about it happening in 1 universe.

[Nito]

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

Originally posted by Nito:

Just because the Demiurge can re-write reality, does not mean Lucifer can as well. He has never shown this ability in any megaten game/media to my knowledge.

How does blowing up the moon help kill Nyx?

Yes but if this fight were to take place, it would happen in a single universe. Or maybe it would happen in 2 universes or maybe more. The point is, we are talking about it happening in 1 universe.

On Nocturne after Kagutsuchi time itself is broken only god like beings could do anything there, Strange Journey the omnipresence and V the true neutral ending where he possibly kills YHVH....

Nyx is the moon or the core she is not a being of counciousness she is a literal creature on P3 so yeah she can be killed but the moon would need to be obliterated

Saying that beings like Stephen/Lucifer and YHVH may even travel between universes as they sometimes have knowledge that they shouldn't have.

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by Nito:

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

On Nocturne after Kagutsuchi time itself is broken only god like beings could do anything there, Strange Journey the omnipresence and V the true neutral ending where he possibly kills YHVH....

Nyx is the moon or the core she is not a being of counciousness she is a literal creature on P3 so yeah she can be killed but the moon would need to be obliterated

Saying that beings like Stephen/Lucifer and YHVH may even travel between universes as they sometimes have knowledge that they shouldn't have.

After Kagutsuchi dies, then yes a godlike being could do something, but only because the death of Kagutsuchi allowed it. It isn't something that Lucifer can nautically do. Same thing for the other things you listed except maybe strange journey, haven't played that.

Ok you got me there. I wasn't aware of that. Then yes, Lucifer could destroy the moon and kill Nyx.

I still don't get what you're saying here. We were talking about this fight happening in one hypothetical universe. So jumping between dimensions has no impact on this fight. Unless your saying that another Lucifer could come and also fight? Or that Lucifer would know to destroy the moon? I still don't get what you're trying to say.