How come Hard is harder than MERCILESS?

[Fanta]

Why can't they just fix this? It's 2022 I'm sure they can release a patch about it.
The Ni No Kuni 2 developers managed to patch new difficulties, and Atlus does have a precedence on releasing DLC difficulties beyond release date.

How come no one cares about pressuring them for this?

I'll just list a few ideas to buff difficulty because idk I just want to let it out:

1. Enemy AI targetting MC more often
2. Random encounters having also random enemy reinforcements (1 or more demons) that match one of the weaknesses in your active party
3. weakness/technical 3x damage applies only to enemies, not to you
4. Cannot use items during combat (hi soul hackers 2)
5. Enemies will always ALWAYS read your weaknesses, as if it's public knowledge, making them better at knocking you down
6. Enemies have a buffed chance to inflict technical you regardless of what they use (compensates for the fact that the human player is always smarter in how they play)

Last but not least, a difficulty that disables some of the "QOL" that isn't convenience but straight up impacts the difficulty of the game (like some changes they did from vanilla). Yes, you'll protest against it obviously, who wants less advantages after all?

===========================================================

Edit: Quote directly from an Atlus interview https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/frumwp/comment/fnni6mj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Page 14, direct quote:

Suehiro: Not just decreasing the difficulty, if you set it to challenge, the damage you deal also increases. The fight may become easier that way.

Kigawa: On the challenge difficulty, we did not simply increase the HP of the enemies, when you knock enemies down or do a technical attack, the damage you deal is threefold. It’s actually more exciting to play. On that note, the hard difficulty may be the toughest.

Itou: That’s right. The challenge difficulty is a high risk high return option that lets you have fun. The exp you get is also increased.

[Æsir]

What makes hard harder than merciless ? (honest question)

[Gary of Nivea]

Originally posted by Æsir:

What makes hard harder than merciless ? (honest question)

Compared to hard you deal less normal damage(0.65x vs 0.8x on hard) but weakness , crits and technicals deal 3x damage. You also get 20% more exp and money than hard. For mob encounters you basically one shot them before you get a chance to hold up. Only in fights where you can't exploit weaknesses or technicals it is harder than hard.

[Emerald Lance]

I see. So basically the same problem with kingdom hearts critical mode.

[panote_saechiew]

Originally posted by Gary of Nivea:

Originally posted by Æsir:

What makes hard harder than merciless ? (honest question)

Compared to hard you deal less normal damage(0.65x vs 0.8x on hard) but weakness , crits and technicals deal 3x damage. You also get 20% more exp and money than hard. For mob encounters you basically one shot them before you get a chance to hold up. Only in fights where you can't exploit weaknesses or technicals it is harder than hard.

really? I remember that the money/exp is less in Merciless so it's harder to grind.

Merciless also force you to restart from last save (Hard is continue at the start of the floor)

[Fanta]

Updated OP.

[Æsir]

Originally posted by Gary of Nivea:

Originally posted by Æsir:

What makes hard harder than merciless ? (honest question)

Compared to hard you deal less normal damage(0.65x vs 0.8x on hard) but weakness , crits and technicals deal 3x damage. You also get 20% more exp and money than hard. For mob encounters you basically one shot them before you get a chance to hold up. Only in fights where you can't exploit weaknesses or technicals it is harder than hard.

Okay, i see, thank you.

[1337Walrus]

Honestly, it's because Merciless still is significantly harder on enemies without easily exploitable weaknesses or on bosses, considering that you're at constant risk of being one-shotted if they successfully hit your weakness or land a technical hit. Letting you faceroll every random encounter if you're good at hitting weaknesses or setting up status effects makes it kind of a very high risk, high reward kind of thing, I guess?

[Kalypso]

Originally posted by 1337Walrus:

Honestly, it's because Merciless still is significantly harder on enemies without easily exploitable weaknesses or on bosses, considering that you're at constant risk of being one-shotted if they successfully hit your weakness or land a technical hit. Letting you faceroll every random encounter if you're good at hitting weaknesses or setting up status effects makes it kind of a very high risk, high reward kind of thing, I guess?

that's what makes Critical Mode in Kingdom Hearts so enticing. One mess up you are done and have to start at the last checkpoint.

[Lemiru]

Yea, If you know what you are doing, Merciless can be a lot easier than Hard in some cases, I'll agree with that and the fact that it could use some adjustments, but some of the changes you are proposing are just straight up bad
1. Enemy AI targetting MC more often - this one would just make the AI more predictable and exploitable
4. Cannot use items during combat (hi soul hackers 2) - This would just make most of the non healing consumables straight up useless and would just be taking away options for the sake of taking them away

[MechaTC]

Um... Why is that even the problem?

Yes, Merciless is harder than Hard. It's by design, as far as I can tell

Comparing to Hard, which is plain old harder difficulty, Merciless is more of a new way to play. Sorta. Makes much stronger emphasis on exploiting weaknesses/technicals, rather than just making the game harder by tweaking numbers

Why fix it?

Edit: Merciless is EASIER than Hard! Slip of the tongue. Damn, I lack sleep...

[prudenut]

I don’t think atlus ever playtests their games on higher difficulties. Higher difficulty in atlus games are basically fighting hp sponges that one shot you, tons of grinding, and having very few viable options. Unless they sell dlc that gifes you op and plentiful resources of course.

[Yílõng Má]

Originally posted by SubTonic:

I don't understand the appeal of having some super hard mode in this game anyway. Normal feels just right for casual play and Hard feels right for grinding and min/maxing. There does come a point where difficulty goes too far, like with Persona 3's hard modes and even P4's Expert mode where you are practically required to be overleveled just so the latest boss can't 1-shot you. Then there's Nocturne on Hard where you can be ambushed randomly and wiped by the enemy group before your group can even act. Eugh.

Because difficulty above Hard is still easy for veteran gamers.

Take example P4G, I solo'ed Margaret and finished the fight with full HP on Very Hard difficulty. It's still easy for us.

[Soren]

Merciless gives more xp/money and the x3 weakness instead of 2x weakness kind of makes it a bad hard mode. Harder than hard modes should never secretly be easier than hard mode because certain mechanics exist that reward experienced players more.

I did find a use for Merciless though. I quite like the minor buffs to xp/money/weakness damage when in combination with an HP increasing mod. It's what I'm settling for since there is no difficulty mods out yet. 5x max HP on all enemies along with Merciless is a lot more fun of a run than vanilla hard mode (where any grinding and the game quickly becomes baby easy mode).

[Danu]

Originally posted by Isagi:

Why can't they just fix this? It's 2022 I'm sure they can release a patch about it.
The Ni No Kuni 2 developers managed to patch new difficulties, and Atlus does have a precedence on releasing DLC difficulties beyond release date.

How come no one cares about pressuring them for this?

I'll just list a few ideas to buff difficulty because idk I just want to let it out:

1. Enemy AI targetting MC more often
2. Random encounters having also random enemy reinforcements (1 or more demons) that match one of the weaknesses in your active party
3. weakness/technical 3x damage applies only to enemies, not to you
4. Cannot use items during combat (hi soul hackers 2)
5. Enemies will always ALWAYS read your weaknesses, as if it's public knowledge, making them better at knocking you down
6. Enemies have a buffed chance to inflict technical you regardless of what they use (compensates for the fact that the human player is always smarter in how they play)

Last but not least, a difficulty that disables some of the "QOL" that isn't convenience but straight up impacts the difficulty of the game (like some changes they did from vanilla). Yes, you'll protest against it obviously, who wants less advantages after all?

===========================================================

Edit: Quote directly from an Atlus interview https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/frumwp/comment/fnni6mj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Page 14, direct quote:

Suehiro: Not just decreasing the difficulty, if you set it to challenge, the damage you deal also increases. The fight may become easier that way.

Kigawa: On the challenge difficulty, we did not simply increase the HP of the enemies, when you knock enemies down or do a technical attack, the damage you deal is threefold. It’s actually more exciting to play. On that note, the hard difficulty may be the toughest.

Itou: That’s right. The challenge difficulty is a high risk high return option that lets you have fun. The exp you get is also increased.

suggest these changes to the people at persona modding, atlus gonna do nothing about this

[Faiyez]

Merciless is a dumb difficulty setting. Play on Hard instead.