How historically realistic is this depiction of the Murphy Branch?

[roon3808]

Long time railroad and history nerd here, but i never knew anything about this area.

Anyway, i went looking up old photos and topographic maps to see if i could see what the locations depicted in the game actually used to look like, and in most instances i'm finding no evidence of most of them at all.

For example the Robinson Gap coal mine appears to never have existed (along with its spur), the "large" yard and roundhouse in Bryson City appears to never have existed, and even the entire Alarka branch seems to never have existed.

Are there a lot of made up features and locations in this map, or is my limited research a bit lacking?

[Feidry]

They did replicate a lot of the original trackage from the era but you're right, there's several made up industries and lots of made up trackage too. Alarka is indeed fictional.

[DorniNerd]

Originally posted by roon3808:

Long time railroad and history nerd here, but i never knew anything about this area.

Anyway, i went looking up old photos and topographic maps to see if i could see what the locations depicted in the game actually used to look like, and in most instances i'm finding no evidence of most of them at all.

For example the Robinson Gap coal mine appears to never have existed (along with its spur), the "large" yard and roundhouse in Bryson City appears to never have existed, and even the entire Alarka branch seems to never have existed.

Are there a lot of made up features and locations in this map, or is my limited research a bit lacking?

Long story short: the trackage follows the correct "run" for the period that the game takes place. Customers either were directly pulled from the real world, historically or accurately, or have real world equals/general area counterparts. There are only a few that have no connection to the area the Murphy Branch runs through.

We used real world maps, historic maps, ICC/Southern Railway documents and other primary sources from a few authors to build the world in the game. We did take some liberties in some places to create customers or ease game play. But nearly everything does have a real world counterpart in this area.

Bryson did not have trackage like we have, but in the real world it was used as a yard to connect the "old mainline" run to the freight trains that would haul freight to Murphy and Asheville. There was a locomotive stationed in this area up until the mid-late 1940s.

Robinson Gap actually did exist as a mine, once upon a time, it was a quarry. It was not a coal mine as no coal is mined in NC (it is all deep and inaccessible, there was no coal mining in this end of the state.) The coal mine was added to benefit a large amount of players who like those sort of operations. Only thing to note here is that product was moved to the railroad and it never had spur for it.

Alarka existed as a Narrow Gauge railroad for a short period in the 1920s, following roughly near where our railroad runs. It hauled clay and lumber versus copper and supplies for the mining town. The copper mines in Alarka themselves actually have real world counterparts on the same branch line, but were flooded out when they built the dam at Fontana. They were some of the richest copper mines in the "copper basin" found in this neck of the country. (The IRL mine that owned the Fontana deposit was quoted to produce 2 carloads of high grade ore per day bound for Copperhill, TN.)

If you'd like to email me with more questions ([e-mail]) or DM me here, please feel free. I'd be happy to answer any questions regarding game design, Murphy Branch history and any sources.

[roon3808]

Awesome, thank you so much for your reply!

I understand how tracks or spurs can exist but be almost impossible to find evidence for. Theres both iron mine spurs and logging lines near me that only existed for a decade or two in the late 1800's. So finding surviving documentation for them is almost impossible.

Anyway, count me in as one of those that loves serving the Robinson Gap coal mine. Regardless of whether the tracks existed or not, you guys did a great job at realistically and logically designing lines as they might have been. My sons and i are really enjoying the game.

~Josh
former NS Harrisburg Division conductor
route builder Trainz 2012 "Reading & Northern"

[DorniNerd]

Originally posted by roon3808:

Awesome, thank you so much for your reply!

I understand how tracks or spurs can exist but be almost impossible to find evidence for. Theres both iron mine spurs and logging lines near me that only existed for a decade or two in the late 1800's. So finding surviving documentation for them is almost impossible.

Anyway, count me in as one of those that loves serving the Robinson Gap coal mine. Regardless of whether the tracks existed or not, you guys did a great job at realistically and logically designing lines as they might have been. My sons and i are really enjoying the game.

~Josh
former NS Harrisburg Division conductor
route builder Trainz 2012 "Reading & Northern"

Sure! I know exactly what you mean. Its really fun and fascinating work when I get to do it. Even using old textbooks on RR construction to help guide ideas and design.

Thanks for your support and happy to hear you are having fun!

[Axehandle]

I finally found what Blue Ridge Locust Pin Company was: they manufactured wooden pins that held glass insulators, among other things.

[DorniNerd]

Originally posted by Axehandle:

I finally found what Blue Ridge Locust Pin Company was: they manufactured wooden pins that held glass insulators, among other things.

They did, yes!

[bfcmik]

You can still see abandoned oil tanks at Standard Oil on Google Earth/Maps. The old lines at the Appalachian Hardwood site are there even today and can be clearly seen on the above satellite views. The log pool at Whittier isn't visible nowadays (if it existed) and there are no visible traces of any connection to Connelly.

[DorniNerd]

Originally posted by bfcmik:

You can still see abandoned oil tanks at Standard Oil on Google Earth/Maps. The old lines at the Appalachian Hardwood site are there even today and can be clearly seen on the above satellite views. The log pool at Whittier isn't visible nowadays (if it existed) and there are no visible traces of any connection to Connelly.

Whittier sawmill is one of the few that did not exist. It actually was a decent sized furniture factory at that site at one time.

Connelly never existed, neither did Walker... Nearest place was the Appalachian Railway at Ela, but it was long gone by our time period.

App Hardwood actually still has its trackage, buried in the kudzu.

Standard Oil (not known by the same name) still is an oil company, just doesn't do railcars anymore.

[Snufkin]

Originally posted by DorniNerd:

Originally posted by roon3808:

Alarka existed as a Narrow Gauge railroad for a short period in the 1920s, following roughly near where our railroad runs. It hauled clay and lumber versus copper and supplies for the mining town. The copper mines in Alarka themselves actually have real world counterparts on the same branch line, but were flooded out when they built the dam at Fontana. They were some of the richest copper mines in the "copper basin" found in this neck of the country. (The IRL mine that owned the Fontana deposit was quoted to produce 2 carloads of high grade ore per day bound for Copperhill, TN.)

Did the narrow gauge at Alarka connect with anything?

[DorniNerd]

Originally posted by Snufkin:

Did the narrow gauge at Alarka connect with anything?

Alarka to Bryson

[Thelamon]

Thank you for the infos!

I think that the dev-team has found very a nice blend of historical basis and reasonable additions to create a viable gaming experience running an independent railroad company!

Bryson yard + Robinsons CM + Alarka are quite essential to create a well rounded feeling, where even substantial consists and larger engines have their place.

PS
The Red Marble grade seems quite extreme compared what could be run from Bryson to Sylva and onwards. What was the historical reason to connect this to Murphy at such an inconnvenient grade?
I´m not from the area and looking at things from the Railroader (TM) "augmented reality" perspective - or rather the "augmented past" the line does just fine without Red Marble and Andrews. Main traffic is towards Sylva - in much more viable terrain, than the Grade... ?!

[x1Heavy]

I don't worry about red marble.

I hope to have four big engines on it coming and going. Im going to meet it at some point.

[sbmarauderman03]

Originally posted by Thelamon:

Thank you for the infos!

I think that the dev-team has found very a nice blend of historical basis and reasonable additions to create a viable gaming experience running an independent railroad company!

Bryson yard + Robinsons CM + Alarka are quite essential to create a well rounded feeling, where even substantial consists and larger engines have their place.

PS
The Red Marble grade seems quite extreme compared what could be run from Bryson to Sylva and onwards. What was the historical reason to connect this to Murphy at such an inconnvenient grade?
I´m not from the area and looking at things from the Railroader (TM) "augmented reality" perspective - or rather the "augmented past" the line does just fine without Red Marble and Andrews. Main traffic is towards Sylva - in much more viable terrain, than the Grade... ?!

The main reason(s) for the line to be built to Murphy was natural resources. Millions of board feet in lumber came out of the WNC forests in the late 19th and early 20th century. I believe at one point there were roughly a dozen paper mills and several tanneries throughout the region as well. The Red Marble area produced a unique type of marble that was a sought-after commodity for a couple of decades around that time. The rail line increased the demand for agricultural products from the area and allowed people to move about the region as well since vehicles weren't prevalent in the area until after WW1 and even then it took several decades for road infrastructure to be built to handle the influx of motor vehicles. And just like 100s of other railroads that thrived in the late 18th/early 19th century, this line eventually saw its traffic/revenue decrease over time as cars/trucks and better road infrastructure became commonplace by the 60s/70s and most of the natural resources had been exhausted or not 'economically viable'.