Ran Out of Coal in the Tutorial

[CommandDork]

New player here...

I ran out of coal during the tutorial and it seems that I'm soft-locked from progression unless I A) Take out a loan to buy another loco or B) Use the console to generate coal out of thin air.

Both options seem...wrong...for just the 1st hour of play. My second loco is still in the garage but it lacks coal too.

Is there a way to get coal out to a stalled loco? Was there something in the interface that I missed warning me that the tender was low on coal?

I don't know real-life steam locos and their coal burn rates so something like 1.2tons or 3.5tons of coal seemed like a lot to me.

[DorniNerd]

I'd suggest the console, just to get you going again.

It sounds like you might be over using your throttle a bit... Fuel use is based on how you run your engines. So 100% throttle all the time without bringing your reverser in to speed up will cost you a lot of fuel very quickly for little distance traveled.

[CommandDork]

Is there a reading in the interface where I can see current usage against what's left in the tender? I didn't notice any.

For example, how would I know how much mileage I could get out of 1.5 tons of coal remaining in the tender based on how far I need to go?

[DorniNerd]

Originally posted by CommandDork:

Is there a reading in the interface where I can see current usage against what's left in the tender? I didn't notice any.

For example, how would I know how much mileage I could get out of 1.5 tons of coal remaining in the tender based on how far I need to go?

So currently no, there isn't. Since the fuel usage is based on how hard you are running an engine, it is not an easy metric to calculate and show a player. I've seen some engines run for quite a while/distance being babyed by the AI running along at 15-25 miles an hour.

You usually get a feel for it over time and, much like they did in the real world, top off fuel + water before departing for longer trips.

[TheLostPenguin]

Running out of coal in the tutorial definitely sucks, and suggests you've got some way to go towards driving economically, but once you get so far as having your (filled) coal wagon on the coaling stage, you'll have a huge runway for learning.
Whilst sure I came into the game with a solid understanding of how to drive a loco so had an advantage from the start, I was also going 2 days between bothering to refill the G16s tender early on because it holds so much once full, compared to how little work you need to do with only a tiny list of customers at low tiers to service over essentially no miles of track.

As Dorninerd says there would be little point to a 'remaining range' readout or any measure of consumption rate beyond just watching the fill level yourself due to both the nature of the route and how wildly the player can affect those values in so many ways.
A trip down to Ela from Whittier would show me near infinite range/no consumption because I'm quite likely to coast pretty much that entire trip since it's a slight downhill grade, but then the return is naturally slight uphill so suddenly the remaining range would plummet since it's required to actually drive the whole way. In order for any such tool to be of use you would need to learn the route so you could interpret what it's telling you, but at that stage you've already learnt the route so where's the value in some UI gizmo to tell you that the current run is basically free (because it's downhill) or that you're chewing through coal and water (because you're dragging ### tons uphill)?

And if you're entirely new to steam simulation and didn't run out of coal purely due to excessive screwing around/exploring from the footplate... Start moving with 100% reverser, but pull that back to 30% by 5mph, and from then on until you come to a stop again just adjust power as needed using the (horribly misnamed for steam) 'Throttle'. That's a rather basic and crude way to drive, but 30% reverser gives you enough power for most of the time (pretty much all the time early in the game), lets the loco run fast enough to get yourself into trouble, and saves a LOT of coal/water compared to running around at higher settings always. You'll eventually find there are times that using more or less than 30% reverser whilst running is useful, but that's a good place to start.

[CommandDork]

Understood and thank you. Having fun with the game nonetheless.

[kildar501]

One important point was made in the discussion and seems to be overlooked a lot. Watch the speed of your trains. Passenger trains tend to be lighter in weight so they can run faster with decent fuel economy. Freight trains can rack up a lot of tonnage being pulled real quick. The faster you try to go with a heavy train, the faster you'll burn through fuel AND water. Water goes quicker than coal, too. So it's a balancing act between speed and the tonnage being moved WHILE using the appropriate locomotive. Trying to pull a 1200 ton coal train with the G-16 from the beginning of the game just isn't going to work. But you can pull 1000 tons of loaded sawmill cars from the mill to East Whittier just fine with that G-16 at 15mph because you're only going a short distance. Right tool for the right job.

[Electromen]

Move the mouse to the tender of the locomotive. The level of coal and water is displayed there.

[Twelvefield]

Anyway, you're not the only one to run out of coal. The only question is: how close were you to the coal chute when you did it?

One of several threads on the topic. Hopefully, there will be a better version of the Tutorial in the future.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1683150/discussions/0/4031348273657917944/

[Imperial Strikeforce]

I don't know if you know this, but once your steam locomotive gets to 10mph, move the throttle to 20%. This is the optimum position. Same for going in reverse at -20.
If you're full throttle all of the time, that's not how steam locos work in this game.

Fuel-saving tips: If you're going downhill, set the throttle to 0% and coast using the brake to slow yourself if you start going too fast. 80% of the way from Sylva to Bryson I'm coasting. This will save you on coal and water once you get that much of the map unlocked. Also, coast as you're coming down the hill from Connelly.

[Rudolf Jan]

Originally posted by DorniNerd:

Originally posted by CommandDork:

Is there a reading in the interface where I can see current usage against what's left in the tender? I didn't notice any.

For example, how would I know how much mileage I could get out of 1.5 tons of coal remaining in the tender based on how far I need to go?

So currently no, there isn't. Since the fuel usage is based on how hard you are running an engine, it is not an easy metric to calculate and show a player. I've seen some engines run for quite a while/distance being babyed by the AI running along at 15-25 miles an hour.

You usually get a feel for it over time and, much like they did in the real world, top off fuel + water before departing for longer trips.

You changed to rules for buying coal. It maybe you need to change that, because waiting 24 hours for the first delivery may be a bit long. I can imagnice thta is a new players does a lot of passenger runs, it is easy to run out of coal without having the suppy arranged for properly.

[Knsgf]

Originally posted by Rudolf Jan:

Originally posted by DorniNerd:

So currently no, there isn't. Since the fuel usage is based on how hard you are running an engine, it is not an easy metric to calculate and show a player. I've seen some engines run for quite a while/distance being babyed by the AI running along at 15-25 miles an hour.

You usually get a feel for it over time and, much like they did in the real world, top off fuel + water before departing for longer trips.

You changed to rules for buying coal. It maybe you need to change that, because waiting 24 hours for the first delivery may be a bit long. I can imagnice thta is a new players does a lot of passenger runs, it is easy to run out of coal without having the suppy arranged for properly.

If one knows they're low on fuel and chooses to do a lot of runs anyway, then getting stranded is purely on them. The game is under no obligation to hold player's hand.

[CommandDork]

That's the thing though, I don't remember being given any indication that I was 'low on fuel' on that particular train/route so I just kept going.

As a new player to the game, and generally new to steam trains, I don't know how far 1.2 tons to 3.4 tons of coal will get me on the map (let alone the 3,000 gals of water or whatever the tender can hold). I assume the tutorial IS suppose to 'hold a player's hand' no? Otherwise you'll see more players getting frustrated and refunding within the first two hours.

Anyway, something should be done, at least at the tutorial level, to educate the new player on who's who and what's that. Even if it's just a slight update to the presented text.

[Imperial Strikeforce]

Originally posted by Knsgf:

Originally posted by Rudolf Jan:

You changed to rules for buying coal. It maybe you need to change that, because waiting 24 hours for the first delivery may be a bit long. I can imagnice thta is a new players does a lot of passenger runs, it is easy to run out of coal without having the suppy arranged for properly.

If one knows they're low on fuel and chooses to do a lot of runs anyway, then getting stranded is purely on them. The game is under no obligation to hold player's hand.

In the beginning stages of the game, when I first started playing, I accidentally ran out of coal also because I was still learning the game, was focused on deliveries, jumping back and forth between doing freight and passenger, hadn't unlocked other coaling/water stations yet, etc.

It's an easy thing to overlook and not think about in the beginning when you're focused on the tutorial and learning the game as the OP said. Not everyone is a 'pro player' like you and does everything perfectly from the start.

[Imperial Strikeforce]

Originally posted by CommandDork:

That's the thing though, I don't remember being given any indication that I was 'low on fuel' on that particular train/route so I just kept going.

As a new player to the game, and generally new to steam trains, I don't know how far 1.2 tons to 3.4 tons of coal will get me on the map (let alone the 3,000 gals of water or whatever the tender can hold). I assume the tutorial IS suppose to 'hold a player's hand' no? Otherwise you'll see more players getting frustrated and refunding within the first two hours.

Anyway, something should be done, at least at the tutorial level, to educate the new player on who's who and what's that. Even if it's just a slight update to the presented text.

For starters, just keep an eye on the coal in the tender box itself. When it gets to only having 1/3 coal left, play it safe and get more. Also, keep an eye on the water gauge inside the cab. It's a clear cylinder with water in it and will go down at the same rate as what's in the tender. When that gets to about 1/3 empty, get more water.

As you unlock more of the map, make it a priority to buy more coal hoppers and place them at your newly acquired coaling refueling stations so you never have too far to go to refuel.

What might be a good idea to the developers is, maybe adding a warning to the HUD in the lower left corner letting the player know they're about ready to run out of coal/water/diesel. We should think about there are some players who are new to train games, have never done steam locos before, and young players. Also, maybe have in the Settings the ability to turn on/off that indicator for more advanced players who don't want to see it.