New equipment idea: Auxiliary tenders

[Kerry]

So on the real railroads, especially in the modern era, all excursion locomotives are equipped with auxiliary tenders (basically a giant square water tank on rails) to carry extra water for long-distance runs.

In fact, if you're running main line steam these days, it's all but guaranteed that it'll be towing an auxiliary tender.

However, this isn't something new. During the era depicted in the game, auxiliary tenders were already in use by Class 1 railroads on their own big trains, both steam-hauled and diesel, but especially the big gas and coal turbine locomotives as they were extremely thirsty engines, essentially being either a jet engine or coal power plant on rails.

And to this day, many of the original aux tenders are still in use. The Union Pacific, for example, reuses the auxiliary tender of one of their gas turbines as an aux tender for Union Pacific 844, along with the Big Boy, 4014. They also used the aux tender with Challenger 3985.

I would like to see an auxiliary tender come to the game as purchasable equipment for our steam locomotives.

[Oilman25]

I would love as well to get auxiliary tenders as the water range on some of the steam locomotives is pretty short without a auxiliary tender or more to boost water range on them K-28T 2-8-2t steam locomotives and few other steam locomotives.

[🚂🚃Taschi🚃🚃]

Suggestion: instead of putting a tender on a tank engine, just don't use a tank engine???

[Kerry]

Originally posted by 🚂🚃Taschi🚃🚃:

Suggestion: instead of putting a tender on a tank engine, just don't use a tank engine???

Ehh, fair. Tank engines aren't really meant to go long distances anyway.

[Oilman25]

Well there's photos back in the days of steam that have tank locomotives with tenders in order have more range on given amount of water, and it would be neat to have that in the game and those photos of tank locomotives with tenders many of them were close cousins to the K-28T 2-8-2 steam locomotive in game.

And if the game developers can get the Logging Tank Santa Fe 2-10-2t into the game and with connects for auxiliary tender use I be happy.

[Phoneend]

would love to have this in the game

[JE55BUNN1]

If implemented, give us the visual option of a tank car as a tender. We can't all afford fancy designed built tenders = )

[Kerry]

Originally posted by JE55BUNN1:

If implemented, give us the visual option of a tank car as a tender. We can't all afford fancy designed built tenders = )

Yep, and indeed many railroads did this - even the Class 1s! UP used to use tank cars as aux fuel tenders for some of their gas turbines!

I expect that if they do implement this they will add a cheaper option (tank car with a hose) and a more expensive option (custom-built aux tender). Could even reuse some of the fuel tankers they already have for diesel standpipe supply.

[oldwolf815]

Ok, let's consider the logistics of this for a minute though. While I agree, it would be nice to go further without stopping for water, fuel efficiency isn't too bad as it is right now. The dev's just greatly extended how far you can go in the last update. But, for argument sake, lets say we want to go farther. Eventually you are going to hit the point of diminishing returns. Water is heavy, and every gallon you carry is going to cut into how much freight you can move. Lets assume we use the current in game 8000 gallon tank car as a tender. You would be losing 32 tons of capacity to water, plus right around 5.5 tons to the weight of the car. That's over 13 tons of lost capacity just for a little water. I mean, yeah, when you figure it by 1000's of tons you could haul a lot of water. But I would argue that 1 or 2 of these tankers could end up forcing you to buy bigger engines, and then add more tankers to go farther, repeat ad nauseam.

[Kerry]

Originally posted by oldwolf815:

Ok, let's consider the logistics of this for a minute though. While I agree, it would be nice to go further without stopping for water, fuel efficiency isn't too bad as it is right now. The dev's just greatly extended how far you can go in the last update. But, for argument sake, lets say we want to go farther. Eventually you are going to hit the point of diminishing returns. Water is heavy, and every gallon you carry is going to cut into how much freight you can move. Lets assume we use the current in game 8000 gallon tank car as a tender. You would be losing 32 tons of capacity to water, plus right around 5.5 tons to the weight of the car. That's over 13 tons of lost capacity just for a little water. I mean, yeah, when you figure it by 1000's of tons you could haul a lot of water. But I would argue that 1 or 2 of these tankers could end up forcing you to buy bigger engines, and then add more tankers to go farther, repeat ad nauseam.

While this is true, it's only one auxiliary tender per engine. Some of the bigger engines can carry thousands of tons of cargo. One tank car isn't going to make much of a difference.

Most auxiliary tenders, like the one they used for the UP steam program engines, can carry a LOT more than 8000 gallons. In fact looking up the details I found the ones Union Pacific uses can haul twenty eight thousand - that's just under four times as much as you stated! One would assume other aux tender configurations are similar.

One auxiliary tender per locomotive would be more than sufficient.

Source:
https://utahrails.net/pass/water-cars.php

[sbmarauderman03]

Everyone's making comparisons to the UP; where was/is this company located? Oh yeah, out west where you can go 100s of miles between towns (and water sources) and you needed to pull massive tonnage to make it financially viable. While auxiliary tenders were an important part of the steam era, they had their place...out west, not on Appalachian RR short lines that pulled a meager amount of tonnage and had small towns/station stops every 5-10-15 miles where a water source could be placed.

[Kerry]

Originally posted by sbmarauderman03:

Everyone's making comparisons to the UP; where was/is this company located? Oh yeah, out west where you can go 100s of miles between towns (and water sources) and you needed to pull massive tonnage to make it financially viable. While auxiliary were an important part of the steam era, they had their place...out west, not on Appalachian RR lines that pulled a meager amount of tonnage and had small towns/station stops every 5-10-15 miles.

We're ALSO thinking modern era, where auxiliary water tanks are ALSO used on ALL main line passenger runs EVEN back east as water towers are few and far between! Just like on the in-game road.

The era the game is depicted in, is not the golden age of steam but instead it's the 1950s, the era when the railroads were beginning to lose out to cars and trucks. When railroad water towers were being demolished left, right and center in a nationwide business conspiracy favoring automotive manufacturers, busses and rubber tires over rails. And when many interurban lines met their demise because of this same conspiracy to put them out of business.

And if you think the eastern roads never pulled heavy tonnage, you are SERIOUSLY wrong! There were some SERIOUSLY heavy movers back east, hell the Southern had the Saluda railroad grade, the toughest railroad grade anywhere in the United States!

Facts of the matter are, the auxiliary tender was born to serve in this very era, whether out west or back east. Many an eastern road had them too, like the Norfolk and Western (a very famous Appalachian road) and the Southern.

IRL this railroad would have been part of the Southern, as it's based on the Murphy Branch, so it would have had access to auxiliary water tenders. Aux tenders would be right at home here IRL, so it's not that much of a stretch to have that particular piece of equipment in the game. Believe it or not they would be highly prototypical here.

[radioisotopics]

Originally posted by sbmarauderman03:

Everyone's making comparisons to the UP; where was/is this company located? Oh yeah, out west where you can go 100s of miles between towns (and water sources) and you needed to pull massive tonnage to make it financially viable. While auxiliary tenders were an important part of the steam era, they had their place...out west, not on Appalachian RR short lines that pulled a meager amount of tonnage and had small towns/station stops every 5-10-15 miles where a water source could be placed.

Have you ever heard of the Norfolk and Western? They had aux tenders for their class A mallets, and they certainly didn't run through the desert.
The Baltimore and Ohio had probably hundreds of tank cars refitted to be aux tenders, and they used em on everything, mikes and 2-10-2s included.
The New York Central had a subsidiary with handful of 4-6-0s that had aux tenders
Also, the Virginian had aux tenders for a lot of locos.
The Louisville & Nashville had aux tenders.
Canadian Pacific and Canadian National had tons of aux tenders.
The CENTRAL PACIFIC had water cars that were occasionally used as a sort of aux tender.
The Delaware & Hudson had aux tenders.
The Great Northern had aux tenders.

Suffice to say MANY large rrs, especially in the east, where water wasn't all that scarce, had aux tenders. In most cases, they were for "not holding up traffic on the main line" or "not needing to start this heavy train again" reasons

[sbmarauderman03]

Originally posted by Kerry:

We're ALSO thinking modern era, where auxiliary water tanks are ALSO used on ALL main line passenger runs EVEN back east as water towers are few and far between! Just like on the in-game road.

The game isn't set in the modern era, though; you point this out yourself. Yes, SOME east coast lines used auxiliary tenders, but the line this game is based on did not. I never said auxiliary tenders were never used in the east, but that they were more commonplace in the west.

Originally posted by Kerry:

The era the game is depicted in, is not the golden age of steam but instead it's the 1950s, the era when the railroads were beginning to lose out to cars and trucks. When railroad water towers were being demolished left, right and center in a nationwide business conspiracy favoring automotive manufacturers, busses and rubber tires over rails. And when many interurban lines met their demise because of this same conspiracy to put them out of business.

Ok...what does any of this have to do with adding auxiliary tenders to the game?

Originally posted by Kerry:

And if you think the eastern roads never pulled heavy tonnage, you are SERIOUSLY wrong! There were some SERIOUSLY heavy movers back east, hell the Southern had the Saluda railroad grade, the toughest railroad grade anywhere in the United States!

Where did I say this? I'm from NC and know all about Saluda grade; knew about it before the internet existed and made it easy for everyone else to learn about it. Again, what does this have to do with adding auxiliary tenders to the game? Is there the need to pull some SERIOUSLY heavy tonnage in this game?

Originally posted by Kerry:

Facts of the matter are, the auxiliary tender was born to serve in this very era, whether out west or back east. Many an eastern road had them too, like the Norfolk and Western (a very famous Appalachian road) and the Southern.

Again, I never said the auxiliary tender was ONLY used in the west. Again, being from NC I know very well about the N&W and the Southern. You say many eastern roads had them...who else? You only named 2 out of the dozens of eastern RRs.

Originally posted by Kerry:

IRL this railroad would have been part of the Southern, as it's based on the Murphy Branch, so it would have had access to auxiliary water tenders. Aux tenders would be right at home here IRL, so it's not that much of a stretch to have that particular piece of equipment in the game. Believe it or not they would be highly prototypical here.

IRL this line WAS part of the Southern, but also IRL THEY DID NOT USE AUX TENDERS ON THE MURPHY BRANCH. So how can you say "they would be highly prototypical here"???

[sbmarauderman03]

Originally posted by radioisotopics:

Have you ever heard of the Norfolk and Western? They had aux tenders for their class A mallets, and they certainly didn't run through the desert.
The Baltimore and Ohio had probably hundreds of tank cars refitted to be aux tenders, and they used em on everything, mikes and 2-10-2s included.
The New York Central had a subsidiary with handful of 4-6-0s that had aux tenders
Also, the Virginian had aux tenders for a lot of locos.
The Louisville & Nashville had aux tenders.
Canadian Pacific and Canadian National had tons of aux tenders.
The CENTRAL PACIFIC had water cars that were occasionally used as a sort of aux tender.
The Delaware & Hudson had aux tenders.
The Great Northern had aux tenders.

Suffice to say MANY large rrs, especially in the east, where water wasn't all that scarce, had aux tenders. In most cases, they were for "not holding up traffic on the main line" or "not needing to start this heavy train again" reasons

This game is based on a 115 mile branch line; you are comparing it to major RR lines that traversed over 100s of miles and carried 1000s of passengers and/or 1000s of tonnage every hour of every day. Besides, aux tenders were never used on the line this game is modeled after...

[radioisotopics]

Originally posted by sbmarauderman03:

Where did I say this? I'm from NC and know all about Saluda grade; knew about it before the internet existed and made it easy for everyone else to learn about it. Again, what does this have to do with adding auxiliary tenders to the game? Is there the need to pull some SERIOUSLY heavy tonnage in this game?

You literally said "not on Appalachian RR short lines that pulled a meager amount of tonnage and had small towns/station stops every 5-10-15 miles where a water source could be placed."

And as I pointed out myself, there were probably a few dozen of eastern roads that used aux tenders, and even the Central Pacific (I know it's from the west, but it's old, so it's interesting) and big roads like the B&O and the L&N had many many dozens or hundreds of aux tenders.

really not seeing what the problem is