[We The People Mod] - Is it worthwhile to settle new cities when playing with the 2-tile radius option?

[Ellye]

I feel like this option, as cool as it is, kinda makes it pointless to settle new cities.

In the base game, you normally need at least two - and often three - cities to have access to all resources for a stable production chain for tools, weapons, ships, some trading good, etc.

But with the large radius of We The People, it's easy to have access to everything in a single city, and at that point the logistics of having to transport goods between cities would just be wasteful.

Is there any incentive that I'm missing, aside from maybe going for the expansion victory?

[knighttemplar1960]

I build dedicated supply cities inland and ship raw materials and food into the port cities. It lets you specialize a bit more.

[ovehaithabu]

Originally posted by Ellye:

I feel like this option, as cool as it is, kinda makes it pointless to settle new cities.

In the base game, you normally need at least two - and often three - cities to have access to all resources for a stable production chain for tools, weapons, ships, some trading good, etc.

But with the large radius of We The People, it's easy to have access to everything in a single city, and at that point the logistics of having to transport goods between cities would just be wasteful.

Is there any incentive that I'm missing, aside from maybe going for the expansion victory?

There are so many different goods in WTP, no way you can access them all in a single city. Plus do you not wish to cover a bigger part of the map ?

[hawkeye]

Is it worthwhile settling new cities? Yes and no. I usually focus on one town. If starting on a large land mass I will also claim territory with 1-colonist towns e.g. gold and silver mines. If on an island, just the 1 town.

Why build your own towns when your enemies will do it for you?

The 2-tile radius makes it easier to claim land. This is good for solo games as it makes the early game a lot easier.

I only play the domination victory condition as I play the French. No slaves. Friends with the indians. Indian traders in WTP make more money than towns.

I build up the main town to make money. The objective is to turn it into a military production machine. Once the town is fully operational every immigrant gets educated into line infantry and all money gets spent on european regulars. If you survive early on, eventually you will have an army that can control the New World.

The rationale -

One of the flaws with the game is that you can conquer the world without losing a unit. Unlike real gunpowder warfare, units can recover full strength anywhere but, even better, gain experience turning them into the gunpowder equivalent of a Tiger tank. And logistic needs don't exist. And you get generals and bonus troops as freebie rewards. The reality was that getting hit by a musket ball usually ended your career as a soldier one way or another.

Then wait for the king to declare war on someone and with your 20+ unit army of euro and line infantry start conquering enemy towns. This has 2 benefits - you get large towns for free and it weakens the enemy.

In reality it took a foreign European army and some really dumb British generals to win the real revolution for the American colonials. Similarly the game can be easily won by adopting the same strategy.

I have won the game starting from an island of 2-tiles. 1 tile for the town and 1 for producing wealth e.g. sails and rope production. The AI will land troops and attack. A few european regulars and line infantry will beat them easily and eventually level up to become supermen. Then destroy the world.

2-tile towns make a "Death Star" strategy a good choice. Totally unrealistic historically.

[Dray Prescot]

In the original game the Royalist Army starts by attacking only coastal Cities in a War of independence. So build a couple of good strong NON coastal Cities close enough to support a small number of Coastal Cities, and then fight off the attacks on your Coastal Cities which are heavily developed and defended, by sending reinforcements from the interior Cities as needed. You can have a large economy, in those interior cities, just keep them close enough to each other that Wagons can get from one Town to the next in one turn on your road network. The right Founding Father can help increase that range.

Your coastal City/Capital is mainly how you sell stuff to Europe to get people and economic development/military goods back from Europe. The goods being sold can come from non coastal Cities via wagons and roads to your Capital and or other Coastal Towns. But eventually the tax rate on your sales to Europe becomes prohibitive, and internal development takes over.

Personally, I favored playing the Dutch because their Tax Rate takes twice as long to go up.

Choosing and acquiring the right Founding Fathers/Mothers characters is a critical task in playing the game well. They can support many ways of playing the game. Each one can only be acquired by ONE country, so choose the right ones.

[ovehaithabu]

Originally posted by Dray Prescot:

In the original game the Royalist Army starts by attacking only coastal Cities in a War of independence. So build a couple of good strong NON coastal Cities close enough to support a small number of Coastal Cities, and then fight off the attacks on your Coastal Cities which are heavily developed and defended, by sending reinforcements from the interior Cities as needed.

If you are lucky you might find a large lake that is separated from the main ocean by only one tile. Then you can build a town on that tile, fortify it and build further towns around the lake. Your ships then can still access these towns by sailing through your fortified town. You can set up a large warehouse in that town and use it as a trade hub.

[Dray Prescot]

One other note, in the original game and I assume Religion&Revolution (which I did play several years ago) Mod and the We the People Mod (which I have not played), it was always worthwhile to try to build/place your Cities on a river or next to a river, since that gave additional bonuses for production on river tiles.

I am thinking seriously about giving We the People a good try, I have gotten tired of playing my other games (most recently Port Royale 4). I played a game of the R&R Mod (2 or 3 years ago) to an advanced ( My capital/Home was up to size 58 population, Oct 1692, 200 years after start of game, but I am not certain how many turns that is equivalent to), well developed stage (total 270 hours on Steam), plus some others to a less developed state, but did not try to fight a War of Independence.

I played a LOT, i.e. many games, of the original (pre Windows 95) and Civ IV versions of Colonization (before I had a Steam account) when they first came out.

Another good place to place a City is on a 1 tile wide piece of land between 2 Oceans or Bodies of water separated by large land masses, i.e. something like a Panama (or Suez) Canal, then your ships can use it, but NOT your Rivals from other Nations and your King in a War of Revolution. This could make it very difficult for your King to attack Cities located on the other side, even though they might be coastal.

This City/Town might only have 2 or 3 land tiles from which to attack it. Which is great for defense, but poor for land tiles available to use for economic development. It is also useful in supporting exploration of the unknown New World, and bringing back any Treasure Trains.

It "Might" be possible to find a Two tile wide section of land with a Native settlement on the other side, and build a City on the near side next to it, and use both of them to get ships from one ocean to the other side. However, the natives would have a lot of objections to you doing this, and eventually the Native settlement would probably be disbanded, getting rid of the "Canal" between the two oceans. I do no think that you can build 2 Cities next to each other.
However, such a strategy might be useful as a way to get the ship to the other side and then disband the colony and load the population back on the ship once it is on the other side. I am not sure that this will actually work in practice, but it would be interesting to try it out.

You could probably use a Native settlement located on a one tile wide piece of land as a "Canal" also, for your ships, but so could other Nations use it, and possibly your King. If you left a ship stationed in that Native settlement, your rivals/foes would probably have to attack it before they could move through that Native settlement.

I remember using the Panama Canal idea on Historical Map games of the earlier versions of Colonization, for my exploration ships. I would use a population unit being carried on a small fast exploration ship, preferably as a 2nd population unit with a mounted scout unit as the 1st unit, to build a City to serve as the "Panama" Canal. This City serves as a transfer point between stuff (people, goods, treasures, etc) found on the other side and being brought back closer to your starting colonies/cities. Since Treasure Trains usually needed a ship with 6 cargo space (IIRC) to haul them by sea, you need a way for that ship to get closer to where you found them, i.e. via the "Panama" Canal, in order to bring them back.

Colonization is like other Civilization games, it can richly reward (as well as punish) doing a lot of exploration, but it can take several mounted scout units as well as some exploration ships to move them to new land masses to explore really large New Worlds.

[Dray Prescot]

I have downloaded the We The People Mod, and it plays like I remember the RAR Mod plus the new stuff from the WTP Mod. I am 70 or so turns into a game that is going as well as I can expect, based on old memories.

[Dray Prescot]

It is possible to build a Colony next to a native settlement and then have your ships move through the native settlement to get to your colony.

I have seen a computer AI nation (Spain) do this exactly, and then did it myself after I captured it.

[Dray Prescot]

A small number of cities will be limited in how many Liberty Bells and therefore Political Points are generated to use in buying Founding Fathers. Getting the the right choices and enough of the Founding Fathers before they get taken by other Colonial Nations is critical to doing well in Civ IV Colonization, particularly when playing the WTP Mod.

When it comes time to fight the Royal Army your military units will badly need some extra free promotions to toughen them up to survive the LARGE Royal Army with highly trained and veteran military units. You need the right Founding Fathers before starting your War of Independence. There a number of Founding Fathers that are useful in this regard.

Also having a successful War against your Colonial Neighbors (Nations or Tribes) can help you acquire experienced units and Great General and Admirals. So you may only build one or two cities of your own, but your can Conquer many of them. In my first WTP game, I only had one major city, plus some exploration support cities that were far away, and then my King declared War on Spain, gave me several Royal units, and I conquered 7 cities from Spain.

Only really large Maps, you need some distant cities that you can send your Galleons out to in order to pick up somewhat nearby treasure trains.
In the newest version, 2.8.1, which I have not started yet, I have read that building new towns will require special units (more expensive) and take time to build as well.