Ghost MG 42

[nerf R.N.G]

so anyone not gonna take about this Ghost MG 42?? Did the Devs not look back at COH 1 or COH 2 either the MG movement speed will be slowed or only be stealth in covers. Right now even an average or an below average player can deny map control for good amount of time with 2 - 3 MGs, and im not talking about 3v3 or 4v4.

[Private twinkle toe 1010011]

Everyone knows and it's well so repeated that it needs no more mentioning.

[FriendlyBacon]

No, lets talk about other allied BS that is in the game shall we? or allies just love to cry about anything cool that axis have? yea it's a pain, but you got tons of flares, jeep, scouts, etc. Learn to use them.

[Northilink]

Originally posted by nerf R.N.G:

so anyone not gonna take about this Ghost MG 42?? Did the Devs not look back at COH 1 or COH 2 either the MG movement speed will be slowed or only be stealth in covers. Right now even an average or an below average player can deny map control for good amount of time with 2 - 3 MGs, and im not talking about 3v3 or 4v4.

It is strong, sadly its the only strong option the new Bg bring. it is also the only tool Wehrmacht have as of now to be even a slightly competitive to the extremely good and cost efficients Allied infantry, and motorized jeep.

And it will never be as strong as the ability to denied from the first 10 sec the ennemy fuel with a para HMG because strangely Axis doesnt have breach on its t0 units, but Allies does, while the Allies are the only one to be able to use buildings efficiently as showned with the Hmg paradroped.

[Medryn]

Originally posted by Northilink:

Originally posted by nerf R.N.G:

so anyone not gonna take about this Ghost MG 42?? Did the Devs not look back at COH 1 or COH 2 either the MG movement speed will be slowed or only be stealth in covers. Right now even an average or an below average player can deny map control for good amount of time with 2 - 3 MGs, and im not talking about 3v3 or 4v4.

It is strong, sadly its the only strong option the new Bg bring. it is also the only tool Wehrmacht have as of now to be even a slightly competitive to the extremely good and cost efficients Allied infantry, and motorized jeep.

And it will never be as strong as the ability to denied from the first 10 sec the ennemy fuel with a para HMG because strangely Axis doesnt have breach on its t0 units, but Allies does, while the Allies are the only one to be able to use buildings efficiently as showned with the Hmg paradroped.

No, allies dont have breach on t0. Your bias is showing

[HAKUNA MATATA]

Originally posted by Medryn:

Originally posted by Northilink:

It is strong, sadly its the only strong option the new Bg bring. it is also the only tool Wehrmacht have as of now to be even a slightly competitive to the extremely good and cost efficients Allied infantry, and motorized jeep.

And it will never be as strong as the ability to denied from the first 10 sec the ennemy fuel with a para HMG because strangely Axis doesnt have breach on its t0 units, but Allies does, while the Allies are the only one to be able to use buildings efficiently as showned with the Hmg paradroped.

No, allies dont have breach on t0. Your bias is showing

Yeah, because all their infantry is better at anything that point. Your bias is showing btw

[Northilink]

Originally posted by Medryn:

Originally posted by Northilink:

It is strong, sadly its the only strong option the new Bg bring. it is also the only tool Wehrmacht have as of now to be even a slightly competitive to the extremely good and cost efficients Allied infantry, and motorized jeep.

And it will never be as strong as the ability to denied from the first 10 sec the ennemy fuel with a para HMG because strangely Axis doesnt have breach on its t0 units, but Allies does, while the Allies are the only one to be able to use buildings efficiently as showned with the Hmg paradroped.

No, allies dont have breach on t0. Your bias is showing

Riflemen have breach, royal engineer have breach, so, yes. T0 and T1 then ?
If we go down that road, breach for Dak is lock behind T2 and wehrmacht might even not get it if it goes luftwaffe and not panzergrenadier.

[Private twinkle toe 1010011]

Originally posted by Northilink:

Riflemen have breach, royal engineer have breach, so, yes. T0 and T1 then?

One is gated by additional upgrade most get as early as your revelation of light vehicles, which take times and to support the lack of early flamer. The other is utterly pointless anyway because flamers counter garrison in general and are better than breach 19 times out of 20.

[BrutalGlory]

Originally posted by Private twinkle toe 1010011:

Originally posted by Northilink:

Riflemen have breach, royal engineer have breach, so, yes. T0 and T1 then?

One is gated by additional upgrade most get as early as your revelation of light vehicles, which take times and to support the lack of early flamer. The other is utterly pointless anyway because flamers counter garrison in general and are better than breach 19 times out of 20.

Shhhh, logic isn't something that belongs on an internet forum.

[Medryn]

Originally posted by Northilink:

Originally posted by Medryn:

No, allies dont have breach on t0. Your bias is showing

Riflemen have breach, royal engineer have breach, so, yes. T0 and T1 then ?
If we go down that road, breach for Dak is lock behind T2 and wehrmacht might even not get it if it goes luftwaffe and not panzergrenadier.

Riflemen are also not T0

[Northilink]

It's not about logic, it's about possibilities.... Allies has more opportunities that all. They can freely gets into building without fearing repercussions. Because as you said, without breach you need flamer, pioneer have flamer, and what else does pioneer have? Weaker stats than scout. So if a pioneer squad try to delocate you you can easily kill it. Axis can't do that. Because Allies and Usf have both the best engineer and infantry. Do they need breach, no, they have even better tool but axis got neither.
They don't get to have 4 squads pioneer, they dont get to have fast cheap vehicule, they don't get broken engineer, they don't have polyvalent multi role early infantry that will last the all game and are buffed when taking veterancy or a support company that make bleeding basically 50 efficient less. All they get is a good Hmg.
Even the apparently "complexe" USF tech tree. There is nothing complexe about it. It's cheap, 30 fuels to get every infantry, one fast vehicule and an half track that can be AA, AI and AT while also being an artillery is literally more than what 30 fuel T1 Dak offer

[Private twinkle toe 1010011]

Originally posted by Northilink:

Because as you said, without breach you need flamer, pioneer have flamer, and what else does pioneer have?

Being dirt cheap (cheapest in the game, in fact), T0 and starter unit with better health than US scout. Nuff said.
SMG is also better against ultralight vehicles than rifle, meaning it's a somewhat effective counter to jeeps and dingos when there are 2 of them around.

Originally posted by Northilink:

Weaker stats than scout.

See above.

[Northilink]

Originally posted by Private twinkle toe 1010011:

Originally posted by Northilink:

Because as you said, without breach you need flamer, pioneer have flamer, and what else does pioneer have?

Being dirt cheap (cheapest in the game, in fact), T0 and starter unit with better health than US scout. Nuff said.
SMG is also better against ultralight vehicles than rifle, meaning it's a somewhat effective counter to jeeps and dingos when there are 2 of them around.

Originally posted by Northilink:

Weaker stats than scout.

See above.

there is a diff of 30hp while at only 11 meters, scouts out dps pioneer. the longer you get the futher the difference between the too goes up. And as scout and pioneer move at the same speed, you will always engage pioneer at a disadvantage, unless you are careless.

Dingo as 235hp and 4.5 armor, Mp40 has 5 dmg for 1 pen, so it deals 1.5 dmg will deal 3.5
sadly, Dingo as a better dps than full stack pioneer. what ever the range be : frome 20% more to up to 6 time more dps if at around 15-16 meters. so a pioneer cant push a dingo.

jeep as less hp, but got a far better dps here we have 40% more dps in close range. i m not certain it would counter it as much, but as Allies you will either way always get riflemen, tommys or engineers to deal with both pioneer and grenadiers.

So yes, one unit of scout as a little bit less hp than pioneer, but every other units you might field will be stronger.

And of course, i havent brought the fact that unlike pioneer that are stuck for the all game in this state of worst unit of the game stat wise. Scout can not only be upgraded with tools and veterancy ability (yes scout have fast capturing rate from start, pioneer get it as a vet one ability lol), they can be upgraded as pathfinders or Artillery Observer Squad, which let you turn a "weak" scout into a completely normal cheap but very efficient infantry that have grenades, smokes, specials buildings artillery strike and more.

Pioneer have none of that. The only early upgrade Wehrmacht have is to be able to pay 50 mun so that your grenadier become the equal of the base infantry of the Allies, which means you have to pay 50 mun so that a 260 unit become the equal of 2 260 units that can always be upgraded later with passif techs and weapons making them simply better.
And they dont need to change for T2 units so you can freely farm exp on weaker units to be vet 2 when Wehrmacht need to pay fuel to get vet 1 infantry that again, will only be the equal of those infantry.

PS : riflemen with 2 bar will always be above in dps even in close quarter against a Panzergrenadier while having a base 25hp advantage. And as i said, this doesnt take in account the Panzergrenadier will rarely be vet 1 while the riflemen will most likely be vet 1 or 2 and might even get 60hp buff.

[Private twinkle toe 1010011]

Originally posted by Northilink:

there is a diff of 30hp while at only 11 meters, scouts out dps pioneer. the longer you get the further the difference between the too goes up. And as scout and pioneer move at the same speed, you will always engage pioneer at a disadvantage.

Unless you master kiting, infantry squad never fire while moving away from enemy like vehicles. In other words, those with SMG are usually in control of squad 1v1 match-up distance as they get closer on enemy.

Originally posted by Northilink:

Dingo as 235hp and 4.5 armor, Mp40 has 5 dmg for 1 pen, so it deals 1.5 dmg will deal 3.5

How to tell you don't know how armor works.
The armor is RNG system if the attack that land deals full or deflection damage, not flat damage reduction. If weapon land a penetrating direct hit and the target doesn't have damage reduction like guastatori and stoss, the damage is dealt in full. In other words, almost every bullets deals same damage if successful in landing penetrating hits.
Better yet, vehicles are practically guaranteed to be hit by small arms even when the acc. is dog dung. So the small arms against ultralight vehicles is determined by RNG of penetration chance only, and having "few better dice rolls" is worse than having "a lot of equally good dice rolls but less rewarding" because it's not putting all eggs in a single basket called "single rifle round".

Originally posted by Northilink:

So yes, one unit of scout as a little bit less hp than pioneer, but every other units you might field will be stronger.

So, try combining arm? There's nothing wrong building more pioneers either with the cheap cost they take.

Originally posted by Northilink:

And of course, i havent brought the fact that unlike pioneer that are stuck for the all game in this state of worst unit of the game stat wise.

Hard disagree. The worst unit in my experience is M16 with 75% moving acc penalty and DPS of 11 at max range with all the hoop to jump through to get one to begin with.

Originally posted by Northilink:

The only early upgrade Wehrmacht have is to be able to pay 50 mun so that your grenadier become the equal of the base infantry of the Allies

Someone forgets flamer merge of CoH2. It was good there and is still good here, plus you still keep the best HMG choice around.

Originally posted by Northilink:

And they dont need to change for T2 units so you can freely farm exp on weaker units to be vet 2 when Wehrmacht need to pay fuel to get vet 1 infantry that again, will only be the equal of those infantry.

This one screams "my resource acquisition and/or allocation sucks".

Originally posted by Northilink:

PS : riflemen with 2 bar will always be above in dps even in close quarter against a Panzergrenadier while having a base 25hp advantage.

Pgren still has 15 more health per model. This means the model and, by proxy, DPS is harder to drop, especially when you compete the whole map for resource to boost them up as the vet bonus of Pgren is easier to operate with than US rifle, a bonus that's easier to hit with 25% vet bonus and vet 1 start for 25 fuel.

[FriendlyBacon]

Originally posted by Northilink:

Originally posted by Private twinkle toe 1010011:

Being dirt cheap (cheapest in the game, in fact), T0 and starter unit with better health than US scout. Nuff said.
SMG is also better against ultralight vehicles than rifle, meaning it's a somewhat effective counter to jeeps and dingos when there are 2 of them around.

See above.

there is a diff of 30hp while at only 11 meters, scouts out dps pioneer. the longer you get the futher the difference between the too goes up. And as scout and pioneer move at the same speed, you will always engage pioneer at a disadvantage, unless you are careless.

Dingo as 235hp and 4.5 armor, Mp40 has 5 dmg for 1 pen, so it deals 1.5 dmg will deal 3.5
sadly, Dingo as a better dps than full stack pioneer. what ever the range be : frome 20% more to up to 6 time more dps if at around 15-16 meters. so a pioneer cant push a dingo.

jeep as less hp, but got a far better dps here we have 40% more dps in close range. i m not certain it would counter it as much, but as Allies you will either way always get riflemen, tommys or engineers to deal with both pioneer and grenadiers.

So yes, one unit of scout as a little bit less hp than pioneer, but every other units you might field will be stronger.

And of course, i havent brought the fact that unlike pioneer that are stuck for the all game in this state of worst unit of the game stat wise. Scout can not only be upgraded with tools and veterancy ability (yes scout have fast capturing rate from start, pioneer get it as a vet one ability lol), they can be upgraded as pathfinders or Artillery Observer Squad, which let you turn a "weak" scout into a completely normal cheap but very efficient infantry that have grenades, smokes, specials buildings artillery strike and more.

Pioneer have none of that. The only early upgrade Wehrmacht have is to be able to pay 50 mun so that your grenadier become the equal of the base infantry of the Allies, which means you have to pay 50 mun so that a 260 unit become the equal of 2 260 units that can always be upgraded later with passif techs and weapons making them simply better.
And they dont need to change for T2 units so you can freely farm exp on weaker units to be vet 2 when Wehrmacht need to pay fuel to get vet 1 infantry that again, will only be the equal of those infantry.

PS : riflemen with 2 bar will always be above in dps even in close quarter against a Panzergrenadier while having a base 25hp advantage. And as i said, this doesnt take in account the Panzergrenadier will rarely be vet 1 while the riflemen will most likely be vet 1 or 2 and might even get 60hp buff.

Hi, you're wasting you're time trying to explain something so obvious to them. They won't acknowledge it and will always try to counter you with irrelevant data that doesn't have any practical meaning in the real gameplay.

[Northilink]

Originally posted by FriendlyBacon:

Originally posted by Northilink:

there is a diff of 30hp while at only 11 meters, scouts out dps pioneer. the longer you get the futher the difference between the too goes up. And as scout and pioneer move at the same speed, you will always engage pioneer at a disadvantage, unless you are careless.

Dingo as 235hp and 4.5 armor, Mp40 has 5 dmg for 1 pen, so it deals 1.5 dmg will deal 3.5
sadly, Dingo as a better dps than full stack pioneer. what ever the range be : frome 20% more to up to 6 time more dps if at around 15-16 meters. so a pioneer cant push a dingo.

jeep as less hp, but got a far better dps here we have 40% more dps in close range. i m not certain it would counter it as much, but as Allies you will either way always get riflemen, tommys or engineers to deal with both pioneer and grenadiers.

So yes, one unit of scout as a little bit less hp than pioneer, but every other units you might field will be stronger.

And of course, i havent brought the fact that unlike pioneer that are stuck for the all game in this state of worst unit of the game stat wise. Scout can not only be upgraded with tools and veterancy ability (yes scout have fast capturing rate from start, pioneer get it as a vet one ability lol), they can be upgraded as pathfinders or Artillery Observer Squad, which let you turn a "weak" scout into a completely normal cheap but very efficient infantry that have grenades, smokes, specials buildings artillery strike and more.

Pioneer have none of that. The only early upgrade Wehrmacht have is to be able to pay 50 mun so that your grenadier become the equal of the base infantry of the Allies, which means you have to pay 50 mun so that a 260 unit become the equal of 2 260 units that can always be upgraded later with passif techs and weapons making them simply better.
And they dont need to change for T2 units so you can freely farm exp on weaker units to be vet 2 when Wehrmacht need to pay fuel to get vet 1 infantry that again, will only be the equal of those infantry.

PS : riflemen with 2 bar will always be above in dps even in close quarter against a Panzergrenadier while having a base 25hp advantage. And as i said, this doesnt take in account the Panzergrenadier will rarely be vet 1 while the riflemen will most likely be vet 1 or 2 and might even get 60hp buff.

Hi, you're wasting you're time trying to explain something so obvious to them. They won't acknowledge it and will always try to counter you with irrelevant data that doesn't have any practical meaning in the real gameplay.

I like to try