Remove/nerf the MG42

[Reny Daret]

Overall - all factions MGs are inferior to this one item. This item provides such a power imbalance that just ruins the pace of play.

Lower the cost and streamline all MG's to act similar. At the moment it is a MG42- and you immediately get pinned. No other MG is like this.

Scouting for it requires some kind of chaff - which already is double sometimes triple the cost of the MG and the expense of greater micro.

I appreciate the effort of lowering the costs of some MG's to 220 MP, no. Either make all the MGs similar or remove it.

[=[FifoxDtox]=]

MG-42 was super powerful IRL too, i think this weapon deserve to be like this in the game, early game we need mg to suppress the US op infantry

[LOLwhat2]

Originally posted by =FifoxDtox=:

MG-42 was super powerful IRL too, i think this weapon deserve to be like this in the game, early game we need mg to suppress the US op infantry

People literally go 2 mg into mortar and virtually impossible to stop on some maps. Need to wait for 2 mortars or so but you give up too many resources

[Cipher Esteria]

Knowing how to handle the 42 is an essential part of the Match-Up since CoH1.
Every iteration of Wehrmacht is reliant on this weapon and their entire faction is build up on it.
Besides this topic was beaten to death multiple times, the 42 stays the way it is and it will even if CoH4 should ever be a thing.

[EdwardResinHands]

in coh2 every mg suppressed you instantly and you became pinned and suppressed for longer even when the mg stops firing which is how it should be realistically.

if anything we should improve the other mg to be similar to the 42 as i've had enemies straight up walk past my mg lines and take them out without being suppressed which doesn't make sense.

[Slim]

Well considering most of everything else wehr has at tier0 and 1 are either carbon copies of everyone elses mortar or the worst supporting combat infantry, the worst mainline infantry and the most useless unit in the game, the wehr sniper.

Oh noes, the one faction I don't play has the best MG!!!....

[Reny Daret]

Originally posted by Mr.Cipher:

Knowing how to handle the 42 is an essential part of the Match-Up since CoH1.
Every iteration of Wehrmacht is reliant on this weapon and their entire faction is build up on it.
Besides this topic was beaten to death multiple times, the 42 stays the way it is and it will even if CoH4 should ever be a thing.

This is a non answer. "It's always been this way!"
Back then we had fire up, and could rush down the MGs. We don't here.

If you get the drop on an allies lines, if you penetrate - the MGs they have can be flanked because they shoot and you have the opportunity to retreat. With Wher, you found the MG and now a squad is outright pinned. In a combined arms army like the allies it's devastating. Your zooks are not pinned and you can't respond to a MG/Tank or whatever combination.

Just provide the same experience to all factions - MG's should be useful but not a PIN THE ARMY type of deal. The usual arguments will come up, "use mortars!", "Spread out"...lets just cut the argument out now - make it similar so that the same amount of micro is required.

"Allies have more units!" - yet Africa corps can spam rifles just like allies but guess what? No MG42 to stop them. The world moves on no problems.

[Cipher Esteria]

Originally posted by Reny Daret:

This is a non answer. "It's always been this way!"
Back then we had fire up, and could rush down the MGs. We don't here.

If you get the drop on an allies lines, if you penetrate - the MGs they have can be flanked because they shoot and you have the opportunity to retreat. With Wher, you found the MG and now a squad is outright pinned. In a combined arms army like the allies it's devastating. Your zooks are not pinned and you can't respond to a MG/Tank or whatever combination.

Just provide the same experience to all factions - MG's should be useful but not a PIN THE ARMY type of deal. The usual arguments will come up, "use mortars!", "Spread out"...lets just cut the argument out now - make it similar so that the same amount of micro is required.

"Allies have more units!" - yet Africa corps can spam rifles just like allies but guess what? No MG42 to stop them. The world moves on no problems.

Thats not my answer.
my answer was:
Learn the Match-Up

[Lynx]

CoH's faction design is supposed to be asymmetrical and varied.
Streamlining everything to be exactly alike ruins that whole aspect and the fun with it.

Besides comparing one unit to an equivelant on the opposing side is a falacy. Sure the MG42 is better than the other MG's (thank god) but then the other factions have something else that whermacht doesn't etc. etc. It's not supposed to be 1 to 1.

I do however feel the vickers has too slow of a suppresion, but haven't tested it.

[Reny Daret]

Originally posted by Lynx:

CoH's faction design is supposed to be asymmetrical and varied.
Streamlining everything to be exactly alike ruins that whole aspect and the fun with it.

Besides comparing one unit to an equivelant on the opposing side is a falacy. Sure the MG42 is better than the other MG's (thank god) but then the other factions have something else that whermacht doesn't etc. etc. It's not supposed to be 1 to 1.

I do however feel the vickers has too slow of a suppresion, but haven't tested it.

Even more "it is what it is, its been this way therefore..."

[Reny Daret]

Originally posted by Mr.Cipher:

Originally posted by Reny Daret:

This is a non answer. "It's always been this way!"
Back then we had fire up, and could rush down the MGs. We don't here.

If you get the drop on an allies lines, if you penetrate - the MGs they have can be flanked because they shoot and you have the opportunity to retreat. With Wher, you found the MG and now a squad is outright pinned. In a combined arms army like the allies it's devastating. Your zooks are not pinned and you can't respond to a MG/Tank or whatever combination.

Just provide the same experience to all factions - MG's should be useful but not a PIN THE ARMY type of deal. The usual arguments will come up, "use mortars!", "Spread out"...lets just cut the argument out now - make it similar so that the same amount of micro is required.

"Allies have more units!" - yet Africa corps can spam rifles just like allies but guess what? No MG42 to stop them. The world moves on no problems.

Thats not my answer.
my answer was:
Learn the Match-Up

So then it is pointless to speak to you.

[Craymar]

No one wants Red v Blue. There would be nothing to blame for losing.

[Slim]

I mean if you're going by just a single unit vs it's counter part then ya some units are better. But, looking at Wehr as a whole you'll see that the basic combat support unit >Pioneer is 4/4 when it comes to which is better.

Pioneer has the worst combat capabilities only beating a scout squad in a very specific situation. Legit just kite with your scouts and the pios have no chance. Pioneers cannot be upgraded to better units and it's support abilities can be accomplished by better units that are better at doing those support abilities as well.

Grenadier is 4/4 mainline infantry. It loses to every single other mainline infantry in the game. No late game curve to address the lack of upgrades. Given the conscripts ability from CoH2 and we all know how long iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit took conscripts to be viable in that game.

Ketten is probably 2/4 maybe... it can spot, cap and place mines. Tho it's lack of firepower makes me wanna say it's more of a 3/4 kinda thing. Brits got screwed with their light vehicle lol.

Light mortars are both the same imo so that's moot.

But, Wehr sniper is def 2/2 when it comes to snipers.

Now, the MG42. All of a sudden Wehr gets something early game that's 1/4 and everyone loses their minds!

Edit: Nvm about the kettenkrad, it's def 3/4 since jeeps can also cap and completely counter wehrs early game outside of placing them within stabbing distance or running them face first into the MG42.

[T-70 X-Wing]

Originally posted by Mr.Cipher:

Knowing how to handle the 42 is an essential part of the Match-Up since CoH1.
Every iteration of Wehrmacht is reliant on this weapon and their entire faction is build up on it.
Besides this topic was beaten to death multiple times, the 42 stays the way it is and it will even if CoH4 should ever be a thing.

it is to early to speculate but they could pull the rug under us in COH 4 with japan being the main focus this time people would complain about Type 92 HMG

[Slim]

Originally posted by T-70 X-Wing:

Originally posted by Mr.Cipher:

Knowing how to handle the 42 is an essential part of the Match-Up since CoH1.
Every iteration of Wehrmacht is reliant on this weapon and their entire faction is build up on it.
Besides this topic was beaten to death multiple times, the 42 stays the way it is and it will even if CoH4 should ever be a thing.

it is to early to speculate but they could pull the rug under us in COH 4 with japan being the main focus this time people would complain about Type 92 HMG

CoH set in the Pacific theatre would be so utterly boring. People complaining about off map call ins, sim city spam and lack of unit/map variety would absolutely love the island hopping gameplay lol...

[Lynx]

Originally posted by Reny Daret:

Originally posted by Lynx:

CoH's faction design is supposed to be asymmetrical and varied.
Streamlining everything to be exactly alike ruins that whole aspect and the fun with it.

Besides comparing one unit to an equivelant on the opposing side is a falacy. Sure the MG42 is better than the other MG's (thank god) but then the other factions have something else that whermacht doesn't etc. etc. It's not supposed to be 1 to 1.

I do however feel the vickers has too slow of a suppresion, but haven't tested it.

Even more "it is what it is, its been this way therefore..."

I'm all for innovation and trying new things. What I meant was that I simply enjoy the asymmetry of the factions.