So many Allied players whine about how the artillery officer is an imba and a "wizard". Now let's look at the doctrines from the Axis perspective.

[Hedgehog]

1.Artillery Scouts. Specifically - the antenna, this thing can be placed almost anywhere, for 50 human resources, from the beginning of the game. It automatically aims at the nearest visible target within its range and fires 5 small mortar shells, which do a lot of damage. The main advantage is that they can be placed all over the map without any restrictions, their rollback is 15 seconds longer than that of the Officer, but it doesn't change the situation at all - nothing prevents the US from simply piling them all over the map and not making the enemy feel okay. It's almost unrealistic to counter this thing, because not only does it have a HUGE range, it's also invisible, and you'd have to search a significant amount of space to find it and destroy it. This is despite the fact that the US will not wait quietly for the antenna to be taken down. Opposite is the Officer, immediately given "OP" status by allied players. It is the only one on the entire map, has a very small radius of both the strike call (up to the 3rd star) and the radius of the firing itself, which, at the same time, is still visible to the enemy in clear boundaries (the radius of the antenna firing is not visible to anyone at all). The officer's damage is very mediocre, and that is if he hits at all. On average, out of 3 artillery shots, God forbid one hits. If you are not in AFK in another room, it is easy to leave the radius. Yes, the officer's shot can be controlled, but taking into account the above weaknesses - questionable usefulness. While Antennas allow you to sprinkle the Axis with artillery in AFK even without the player's participation, which they happily use when collecting their usual blobs.

2. Rangers. Comparing them to coastal infantry is ridiculous. Rangers have some inadequate damage at close range, and don't give me the "6 pistol-guns" crap. While they sweep away any infantry in close combat, they are also extremely hard to kill if not pinned down. In addition to that - they can be "teleported" to any point on the map where there are shooters. That is, you can make Rangers Riflemen absolutely anywhere, even without the need to return them to the base for this (as in the Wehrmacht). And the squad will immediately be in full composition, regardless of its state before, with the preservation of experience and weapons (Wehrmacht units are zeroed when improving). That is, we can shoot with a squad of shooters, which is coming straight at you, and then they on the 1st fighter suddenly turn into an imbo squad with full health and a ton of damage. Going further: I can understand firing flamethrowers and machine guns on the move, but explain to me firing bazookas on the move. Have you ever held one of those things in your hands? It's not even easy to fire them standing up, let alone running, and they shoot in all directions without slowing down at all. I see blobs of 4-5 ranger squads already on the 4th minute, and it's almost impossible to finish it off even with a machine gun. And what can the coastal infantry do? Sit behind sacks and shoot back with very low damage and durability. Rangers have infantry grenades and the ability to summon any (albeit random) heavy weapon at any time to anywhere they are. Coastal infantry has molotov cocktails that can't even destroy a jeep, and it costs 25 ammo. Yes, they are replenished for free every 45 seconds near the bunker...questionable use against a squad that can be given 3 slots of heavy weapons.

3. Let's return to the Officer. Now not from the point of view of artillery, but as a combat unit. It is represented by 4 fighters, with abilities to speed up construction/production (which is extremely rarely used in reality), as well as a strong active ability for surrounding infantry. In this regard, the officer is indeed very strong and can help hold the line. As a counterbalance, the Americans can supply a crowd of uncontrollable soldiers who, as is customary with the Allies, will march in a blob to the specified point. In addition, you can set up a field hospital at any point on the map (captured), which can also serve as a point of retreat. On the other hand, there is an ability that strengthens the defense of units significantly in a specific SECTOR (the Officer has a small radius around him at the time of using the ability).

4. Special type construction abilities. The United States can build a field hospital at any captured point on the map, which can also be a point of retreat - this is convenient, and is analogous to the Wehrmacht’s ability to build a bunker at any captured point automatically. The difference is that this bunker will simply be an empty structure, which then needs to be improved into a PT/MG bunker. It cannot be a point of retreat, but it can be upgraded into a medical bunker, which the Allies essentially get right away. To be fair, it is worth saying that sector defense is not used by the Americans in the same way as self-building a bunker.

5. Highest tier ability - strengthening Wehrmacht bunkers. Increases health and allows you to repair yourself. A very powerful ability, I don’t argue, but what do the Allies have as a counterweight? Powerful shelling from behind the map, or automatic shelling without a rollback from their stationary guns. Let it be equivalent

So where is the real OP?

[Colbear]

How can we pin this for relic to see? an in-depth critic of noticeable and unbalanced issues while still being realistic? give this guy a medal, seriously.

[Emjay]

I think part of the issue is that we are comparing 2 new battle groups as opposed to comparing how they fare with and against the originals.

I don't really see many options to counter them with the tools we all have as base game owners. Aside from the whole "pay-2-win" thing that some may claim, I simply feel it ushers the game to have 2 viable battle groups out of the 12 that we had originally.

Chances are there's also a degree of knee-jerking going on here, so there's also that...

[Strategist]

This is anything but an objective post. You can hear the Axis bias in nearly every sentence, referring to "allied blobbers" etc.

BUT to respond to a few things:

1 and 3. Arty officer definitely needed the nerf. I know CoH3 loves free abilities but cooldown needed to be higher and the radius MUST be dodgeable as ALL "yellow smoke" equivalents should be. The problem was mostly that this unit has so many buffs and is fairly durable, and can spam this area of effect mortar barrage. And when it does hit if you can't move in time it actually does pretty massive damage. Its also semi-permanent. Much more effective than an actual mortar, cheaper, and so on. Now, if you want to compare to the Artillery Observers, they have to spend 50 manpower and they are static, and they do drop yellow smoke if I recall. Regardless I think both of these things are way too cheesy and have no place in this type of RTS. I definitely do not like the direction they are taking this game, as it already had enough meme/magic free abilities. It makes CoH2 seems like a hardcore competitive RTS while CoH3 is more like an arcade game more similar to Age of Empires of Starcraft. I know they aren't even the same genre of RTS but just making a comparison. In my opinion all of it needs to go back towards the roots of CoH2 in terms of abilities and upgrades.

2. Rangers and Coastal Reserves are such drastically different units that you cannot compare them individually. I honestly don't seem Rangers all that often, and I don't have the new battlegroups so this is just observations playing AGAINST these things. I have yet to face the new and improved rangers, but I constantly fight against Coastal bunker spam still. What I can say is that I absolutely did not think Rangers were too bad to fight against before. They are the most expensive infantry in the game. The instant conversion thing is completely stupid though and I bet it will get changed to "transfer orders" like Wehrmacht.

4. The field hospital is an exclusive battlegroup choice and is quite redundant with a lot of things the US has for healing. They ALREADY have a forward retreat ability in the Captain, which also happens to be pretty much the only way to play US right now, especially with Rangers. I suppose it does open up the option to pick something else and still have the retreat, but tbh this is a huge non-issue. Doesn't it still cost 20 fuel and its a flimsy tend, not a freaking bunker.

5. I don't know what to say other than that these battlegroups are different from each other. I don't think the US howitzer is particularly strong. In fact, I don't think any of the arty pieces are strong. Bishop, Nebelwerfer, and Whizbang all seem the best. Haven't made up my mind on the Stuka, but I think the Recon Tractor is honestly the same but way better. Basically, all the actual artillery pieces are mediocre at best (although it could be argued that the Obice is the only one that can actually shock or wipe the enemy). I think all the others mostly just tickle. Regardless, the Bulwark ability is incredibly strong (not saying its OP), and so are the vast number of other buffs this battlegroup gets. Like stacking Command Bunker, Arty Officer, Bulwark, etc. all together is super ridiculous in theory. I already wish they would just rework it so that bunker spam isn't even possible.

[Hedgehog]

Originally posted by Strategist:

This is anything but an objective post. You can hear the Axis bias in nearly every sentence, referring to "allied blobbers" etc.

BUT to respond to a few things:

1 and 3. Arty officer definitely needed the nerf. I know CoH3 loves free abilities but cooldown needed to be higher and the radius MUST be dodgeable as ALL "yellow smoke" equivalents should be. The problem was mostly that this unit has so many buffs and is fairly durable, and can spam this area of effect mortar barrage. And when it does hit if you can't move in time it actually does pretty massive damage. Its also semi-permanent. Much more effective than an actual mortar, cheaper, and so on. Now, if you want to compare to the Artillery Observers, they have to spend 50 manpower and they are static, and they do drop yellow smoke if I recall. Regardless I think both of these things are way too cheesy and have no place in this type of RTS. I definitely do not like the direction they are taking this game, as it already had enough meme/magic free abilities. It makes CoH2 seems like a hardcore competitive RTS while CoH3 is more like an arcade game more similar to Age of Empires of Starcraft. I know they aren't even the same genre of RTS but just making a comparison. In my opinion all of it needs to go back towards the roots of CoH2 in terms of abilities and upgrades.

2. Rangers and Coastal Reserves are such drastically different units that you cannot compare them individually. I honestly don't seem Rangers all that often, and I don't have the new battlegroups so this is just observations playing AGAINST these things. I have yet to face the new and improved rangers, but I constantly fight against Coastal bunker spam still. What I can say is that I absolutely did not think Rangers were too bad to fight against before. They are the most expensive infantry in the game. The instant conversion thing is completely stupid though and I bet it will get changed to "transfer orders" like Wehrmacht.

4. The field hospital is an exclusive battlegroup choice and is quite redundant with a lot of things the US has for healing. They ALREADY have a forward retreat ability in the Captain, which also happens to be pretty much the only way to play US right now, especially with Rangers. I suppose it does open up the option to pick something else and still have the retreat, but tbh this is a huge non-issue. Doesn't it still cost 20 fuel and its a flimsy tend, not a freaking bunker.

5. I don't know what to say other than that these battlegroups are different from each other. I don't think the US howitzer is particularly strong. In fact, I don't think any of the arty pieces are strong. Bishop, Nebelwerfer, and Whizbang all seem the best. Haven't made up my mind on the Stuka, but I think the Recon Tractor is honestly the same but way better. Basically, all the actual artillery pieces are mediocre at best (although it could be argued that the Obice is the only one that can actually shock or wipe the enemy). I think all the others mostly just tickle. Regardless, the Bulwark ability is incredibly strong (not saying its OP), and so are the vast number of other buffs this battlegroup gets. Like stacking Command Bunker, Arty Officer, Bulwark, etc. all together is super ridiculous in theory. I already wish they would just rework it so that bunker spam isn't even possible.

I don't pretend to be objective. As a Wehrmacht player, I express my opinion from the point of view of a Wehrmacht player, nothing more. But Allied blobs are a fact that is very hard to argue with. I can even provide plenty of evidence where the Allies play exclusively huge crowds of infantry/light tanks, and call it the Wehrmacht who are the blobbers.



1. You're wrong about an officer being able to spam an area with artillery. It has a rollback of 30 seconds from the last firing, and a very small radius for such a rollback. The ally will easily regroup before the second arrival. Yellow smoke - so a clearly defined zone isn't enough for you? It does not come at once and not always on target. In addition - the officer immediately becomes visible on the map as soon as someone is hit by this fire. The antenna is invisible under all conditions. You want to nerf - equalize. Antennas are stationary - it's a fact, but instead they can be set up anywhere in any quantity, so I think it's debatable. From the point of view of combat officer gives powerful defense buffs, it is true, but if you consider doctrines purely as doctrines - even under the buff coastal infantry can not do anything to the rangers. I was looking at doctrines specifically, not how they interact with standard faction units. Antenna costs 50 manpower and need no pop-limit. Oficcer needs 280 and takes 8 limit

2. I've tried US doctrine and I can definitely say that it's many times simpler than the Wehrmacht. All you need to do is, from the start of the game, drive a couple of units into the bushes somewhere, turn them into Terminators and flank them with six machine guns. It's an example, but the point is clear. You can't spam bunkers if you want to. Even with the reduced price from 250 to 175 they eat a lot of resources, and the Wehrmacht has a choice - either to make a couple of unarmed bunkers for the last resources, or to invest in the development of its army by building new headquarters and units. Because bunkers don't immediately have machine guns, reinforcements, PT guns, etc, all of which cost LARGE amounts of resources. Putting a machine gun in a bunker will cost 60 ammo at startup, and you can't change the cone of fire. In addition - bunkers are quickly countered by spamming mortars, which the Allies are now doing all the time.



4. I'm not considering the Captain and other recovery methods here, like half-track transports. This is purely about skills and doctrine units. Yes, a tent is not as durable as a bunker, that's true. But it builds itself at any point without anyone else, it can be hidden where even engineers can't get through to build something else, and it takes up less space. I.e. it can conditionally stand somewhere behind a mountain and reach the troops on the other side with its radius. The command bunker costs 15 fuel, and requires engineers/shore infantry to build. I'm not saying a tent is better than a bunker - I'm parsing the doctrine point by point. Personally, I think a command bunker is better - it gives protection to ALL around you, and serves as a point of retreat. It's handy when organizing defenses, but it's not particularly worse than a US tent

5. US and Wehrmacht stationary guns are about equal, and I don't see much point in comparing them. The American one doesn't do as much damage, but it fires more often and more accurately. The German one does a lot of damage, but it won't hit an elephant at point-blank range, so it's useless to argue about it. The German gets +2 shots near the bunker, the American gets automatic fire and reduced recoil near the special building at the beginning of the doctrine - the ammunition depot. STUKA is a pretty useless unit compared to its counterparts, to be honest, and putting Nebelwerfer in the same row with Bishop is ridiculous. Bishop appears earlier, is much more mobile and dangerous in both - ranged and close combat. In addition, it has a huge kill radius. Nebelwerfer is not very accurate, it makes no sense to use only one - there should be at least 2 of them for real effect. In addition to this - they are terribly slow and vulnerable, they can also be captured. Wehrmacht has NO self-propelled artillery (non-doctrine) and light tanks, which I personally think is absurd - no Bison, no Luchs, no Panzer 2, nothing like that. We have nothing equivalent to oppose a blob of Chaffees and Stuarts.
All together the Wehrmacht's special units and structures are indeed very strong in defense and hard to penetrate - they are. But it's extremely hard to build it when you're constantly blocked by a crowd of rangers or spammed with mortars, unless you put a defensive complex every 100 meters, which is extremely expensive

[DoDonPachi]

the moment you said the arty officer has "questionable usefulness" i stopped reading

but take a clown anyway

[fox]

I need to chime in because this discussion reeks of wehraboo bias and most importantly, disinformation.

FIRST OF ALL:

Artillery beacons only fire ONE barrage every 45 seconds (unless assisted by the scout), and there is a HARD LIMIT OF THREE PER MAP. YOU CANNOT BUILD MORE THAN THREE. THEY CANNOT BE OVERLAPPED (meme positioning with total area control notwithstanding, it's like the commando triangulation). Further, the artillery guys are pretty much worthless as a frontline to inflict bleeding, utility is secondary.

SOME DAMAGE IMBACOMPARISON:

Further, in a real combat situation, here's what your beacon does:

Coastal guards get beaconed: 30 hp damage to one model, 20 hp damage x 4 models (they didn't even try to dodge).
Wehr Pgrens get beaconed: same, about 30 hp damage per model (scatter pattern is hilarious, no smackdown).

Here's what an officer does to a SSF squad that doesn't dodge instead:

3 shells, high scatter, but high splash damage for sure, because even with no smack on top the squad now has:

70/110
54/110
54/110
82/110
82/110
54/110

And this is in the open, imagine if they were pathed in a crater and slightly more bunched up. it's a barrage that makes team weapons moot.

OPENING ANALYSIS:

Stat wise, Coastal is supposed to be crappy, but between the price and _the fact they can build a sandbag nearly instantly even under fire or suppression for optimal buff (on top of green cover). Heck, they're better than Infantry Sections out of the gate stat wise, and need no tech.

Now, if you're willing to read some fun facts, here's what the current situation looks like Wehr vs USF:

By the 1:00 mark, a wehrmacht player will have: the engineer (actually useful compared to the scout), a ketten, and 2 coastal guards (one fresh out of the gate and in the middle of map if they started marching immediately).

By comparison, by the 1:00 mark, the USF player will/can have the following:

2 pathfinders (1 starter, 1 made in 33 seconds, 1 still building).

1 mg paradropped, T2 and a zook squad (zook will be ready at 1:00). Second mg won't drop until about 1:30 if they're dropping multiple.

1 Scout and 2 assault engineers

T1: first rifle will be built at around 0:40, that's when it starts walking. By the time they'll be in the hotzone the ketten will have capped two points already and coastal will be in a favorable position. Second rifle will start being built at around 1:00, so add 21 seconds of building time + walking. Good luck trying to stop them from bunkering (once they do you'll need stuff that can damage concrete, so that's further investments).

Meme: 1 scout and 2 jeeps at 1:00 (with armored bg -> first jeep out at :30, 7 seconds build time, vet 1 to cap).

SOME WARGAMING NUMBER CRUNCHING:

Rifles do not inherently bully the coastal enough to gain map advantage, so we can count on the wehr to make bunkers in a point that's worth defending.

A bunker is built in 18 seconds, 175 mp, needs heavy weaponry to dislodge, and the mg upgrade has roughly the same timing as an engi flamer.

Bunker vs 1 mortar (not sure when you'd build a mortar without being outnumbered cause as we saw you also need meatbags to protect your mortar, which is expensive):

a single mortar needs 4 barrages + attack ground in-between to kill a fresh bunker, takes 1:30. Losing a bunker is the equivalent of losing roughly 9 coastal models (20 reinforce cap).

Mind you, you're trying to shell a bunker unopposed, possibly in a team game, for 1:30, vs what is a line that playing fortification and is just waiting for their wizard.


Goes without saying that sooner than later, you'll start seeing panzergrenadiers, after the 5:00 mark the game has too many variables to play it on paper, but I'm sure any objective person can see where the problem is.


And yeah, I have a free afternoon.

[Hedgehog]

Originally posted by Mariah Carey:

I need to chime in because this discussion reeks of wehraboo bias and most importantly, disinformation.

FIRST OF ALL:

Artillery beacons only fire ONE barrage every 45 seconds (unless assisted by the scout), and there is a HARD LIMIT OF THREE PER MAP. YOU CANNOT BUILD MORE THAN THREE. THEY CANNOT BE OVERLAPPED (meme positioning with total area control notwithstanding, it's like the commando triangulation). Further, the artillery guys are pretty much worthless as a frontline to inflict bleeding, utility is secondary.

SOME DAMAGE IMBACOMPARISON:

Further, in a real combat situation, here's what your beacon does:

Coastal guards get beaconed: 30 hp damage to one model, 20 hp damage x 4 models (they didn't even try to dodge).
Wehr Pgrens get beaconed: same, about 30 hp damage per model (scatter pattern is hilarious, no smackdown).

Here's what an officer does to a SSF squad that doesn't dodge instead:

3 shells, high scatter, but high splash damage for sure, because even with no smack on top the squad now has:

70/110
54/110
54/110
82/110
82/110
54/110

And this is in the open, imagine if they were pathed in a crater and slightly more bunched up. it's a barrage that makes team weapons moot.

OPENING ANALYSIS:

Stat wise, Coastal is supposed to be crappy, but between the price and _the fact they can build a sandbag nearly instantly even under fire or suppression for optimal buff (on top of green cover). Heck, they're better than Infantry Sections out of the gate stat wise, and need no tech.

Now, if you're willing to read some fun facts, here's what the current situation looks like Wehr vs USF:

By the 1:00 mark, a wehrmacht player will have: the engineer (actually useful compared to the scout), a ketten, and 2 coastal guards (one fresh out of the gate and in the middle of map if they started marching immediately).

By comparison, by the 1:00 mark, the USF player will/can have the following:

2 pathfinders (1 starter, 1 made in 33 seconds, 1 still building).

1 mg paradropped, T2 and a zook squad (zook will be ready at 1:00). Second mg won't drop until about 1:30 if they're dropping multiple.

1 Scout and 2 assault engineers

T1: first rifle will be built at around 0:40, that's when it starts walking. By the time they'll be in the hotzone the ketten will have capped two points already and coastal will be in a favorable position. Second rifle will start being built at around 1:00, so add 21 seconds of building time + walking. Good luck trying to stop them from bunkering (once they do you'll need stuff that can damage concrete, so that's further investments).

Meme: 1 scout and 2 jeeps at 1:00 (with armored bg -> first jeep out at :30, 7 seconds build time, vet 1 to cap).

SOME WARGAMING NUMBER CRUNCHING:

Rifles do not inherently bully the coastal enough to gain map advantage, so we can count on the wehr to make bunkers in a point that's worth defending.

A bunker is built in 18 seconds, 175 mp, needs heavy weaponry to dislodge, and the mg upgrade has roughly the same timing as an engi flamer.

Bunker vs 1 mortar (not sure when you'd build a mortar without being outnumbered cause as we saw you also need meatbags to protect your mortar, which is expensive):

a single mortar needs 4 barrages + attack ground in-between to kill a fresh bunker, takes 1:30. Losing a bunker is the equivalent of losing roughly 9 coastal models (20 reinforce cap).

Mind you, you're trying to shell a bunker unopposed, possibly in a team game, for 1:30, vs what is a line that playing fortification and is just waiting for their wizard.


Goes without saying that sooner than later, you'll start seeing panzergrenadiers, after the 5:00 mark the game has too many variables to play it on paper, but I'm sure any objective person can see where the problem is.


And yeah, I have a free afternoon.

I have to admit, I didn't count how many aerials were on the map, I can just note that the shelling was every 7-10 seconds in a 3 on 3 on the same point. About the damage I can't agree, as an artillery officer very rarely hits the target the first time. It took my officer 17 seconds and 6 volleys to destroy one squad of infantry in 1 on 1, given that the enemy did not even try to dodge, so I consider the damage from the officer random here

Not sure about timings, but at minute 1 I only have 1 engineer, 1 ketten, 1 MG, and 1 coast squad

I can't disagree that Riflemen are equivalent to Coasts in cover, but it wasn't about them at all. In my first post I was looking at skills and units purely doctrinal. Certainly in the complex of all available forces the Wehrmacht is capable of giving a serious counter to the Allies, but my goal was a dry comparison of the two doctrines amidst the Allies whining about "OP officer" since I don't consider him strong enough to be called OP.

In many ways you're right, I'm not arguing, and I'd like to test some of the points in practice if possible

[Strategist]

Counting how long it takes the officer to straight up kill a full squad standing in the zone is a useless comparison as that will never actually happen. How much health does the unit have after the first full barrage WHEN it hits? Unless they react near instantly it usually hits a pretty decent barrage. I've commonly seen it take out about 20% health of a mainline infantry squad, not bunched up and while moving. Now, if the squad is already moving when you activate it theres a good chance that it will barely hit, if at all. BUT, that applies to nearly all indirect fire in the game (other than maybe nebelwerfer and whizbang if they are aimed ahead properly). So, IMO the Arty Officer is way more powerful than a mortar squad, let alone that its a mobile squad and provides buffs to nearby units.

[Cipher Esteria]

You are all missing the point.
Both are stupid and shouldn't exist in the way they are.

And both Battlegroups are obviously overtuned and need to be toned down.
Coastal Reserves being better than Grens is nothing short of stupid, not to mention they refill for free.
Ranger are dumb as you can literally hide a Rifle Squad and then turn them into a terminator squad that just appears and wipes anything they stand next too. (if anything limit it to the HQ area for the promotion, the Unit is..... mostly fine otherwise)
Free Barrages from both the Radio Beacon and the Officier are a bad mechanic that shouldn't exist in the way they do. Arguring which is worse is pointless, they shouldn't exist both periode.

[Outplayed and Destroyed]

still op, delete this pay to win wizard.

[Strategist]

Originally posted by Mr.Cipher:

You are all missing the point.
Both are stupid and shouldn't exist in the way they are.

And both Battlegroups are obviously overtuned and need to be toned down.
Coastal Reserves being better than Grens is nothing short of stupid, not to mention they refill for free.
Ranger are dumb as you can literally hide a Rifle Squad and then turn them into a terminator squad that just appears and wipes anything they stand next too. (if anything limit it to the HQ area for the promotion, the Unit is..... mostly fine otherwise)
Free Barrages from both the Radio Beacon and the Officier are a bad mechanic that shouldn't exist in the way they do. Arguring which is worse is pointless, they shouldn't exist both periode.

I don't disagree with anything you said here

[CHINOOOK]

I would delete the beacons from the game in a heartbeat if it meant the arty officers ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ got removed. I've never seen anyone use beacons to any decent effect. Since it goes off automatically, it just targets whatever first steps into its radius, and it does very little damage.

The problem with the arty officer is it can be spammed, it's targeted by the player unlike beacons, it does incredible damage, and it wipes team weapons (which conveniently allows you to immediately repel and delete any AT gun attempting to destroy your sim city). It also does good damage to tanks. It does all of this ON TOP of passively buffing your entire army of coastal reserves to where they now outperform and out trade rifles and sections.

[Slim]

Originally posted by Strategist:

You mentioned all the arty but the commander exclusive wehr one. You outta give that one a go and you'd change your mind about any of the other ones being mediocre.

[Arashenstein]

I dunno if you played COH2 at launch or not, whenever a new DLC commander was out this was the method, it had hilarious abilities and wouldn't be patched until 2-3 months after release cause they wanted to sell it.

I always said Axis is hilariously OP but with this battle group I completely take it back, the bazooka on the move is just stupid. It is not unbalanced, it is just stupid. P4 has no chance against blobs because you need to constantly reverse to avoid sticky bombs and at the same time eat hits from moving bazookas which does some disadvantage to you by first shot.

[Hedgehog]

Originally posted by Strategist:

Counting how long it takes the officer to straight up kill a full squad standing in the zone is a useless comparison as that will never actually happen. How much health does the unit have after the first full barrage WHEN it hits? Unless they react near instantly it usually hits a pretty decent barrage. I've commonly seen it take out about 20% health of a mainline infantry squad, not bunched up and while moving. Now, if the squad is already moving when you activate it theres a good chance that it will barely hit, if at all. BUT, that applies to nearly all indirect fire in the game (other than maybe nebelwerfer and whizbang if they are aimed ahead properly). So, IMO the Arty Officer is way more powerful than a mortar squad, let alone that its a mobile squad and provides buffs to nearby units.

Agreed. Oficcer is way more effective than mortar squad. Mostly