Company of Heroes 3

Company of Heroes 3

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KAH_98 Sep 26, 2023 @ 6:01am
Japanese empire
I wanted to ask COH3 something, you have several coh, I played them all. I realized a long time ago that you never put the Japanese empire in the game. Why is that? You have the Germans, Soviets, British, US and you never thought about insert the Japanese faction, why not insert the empire along with the axis?
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Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
IEatCats Sep 26, 2023 @ 7:45am 
This question has been asked many times

Relic did not find the Japanese arsenal to be suitable for CoH due its to relative lack of late war tech. This being said Italians were not mad their own faction CoH3 so we are left with the sameish US/British vs 2 german factions again, just no Soviets

For this entry Relic have also said that they prioritized "Prioritizes Authenticity while pushing artistic boundaries"

Company of Heroes 3 Developer Diary // Art & Authenticity

Before the pseudo historians chime in, game developers are not historians and historians are not game developers. Games do not have to be 100% historically accurate, they should be fun and keep it relatively authentic

The final product we got is really pushing the authenticity to the point of breaking. The unit lineup in particular:

DAK: Chose to name a faction that ceased to exist post Africa, though its unit line up is actually the most authentic one

British: The worst of the lot, they insisted on including a Tiger-like tank and used a prototype that never saw combat. Has the oddest mix of early war tech and latter war tech which replaced some of the early tech ones entirely

US: Slightly better than British, although it also mixes some of the early war and late game tech, oddly omitting some since they would overlap in function (M18 Hellcat instead of M10, no Lee tanks etc)

Wermacht: Is DaK with some units changed, many of these are from the previous games

Would advise getting mods if you want to play as other Axis factions
Valerian Sep 26, 2023 @ 7:53am 
I will always be amazed at this discussion because neither party will ever be right. Either the people who think Japan has no role in a game-or the people who think we should thrust an Army that didn't even field a standard issue sub machine gun or provide a basic ration to its troops-into a fast paced confrontational firefight tactics game.

The war in the Pacific didn't look like this game guys....
Last edited by Valerian; Sep 26, 2023 @ 7:53am
IEatCats Sep 26, 2023 @ 9:00am 
Originally posted by Hawkeye:
didn't even field a standard issue sub machine gun

Type-100 and MP-18

Originally posted by Hawkeye:
The war in the Pacific didn't look like this game guys....

This game is quite far from the "Company of Heroes" branding I personally would be more happy if they changed the store picture to the initial one with 1 Allied and Axis soldier staring at each other

We still got 3 months to go before the 2nd of the year, so maybe the expansion will bring something worthwhile...or not
Valerian Sep 26, 2023 @ 12:58pm 
Originally posted by IEatCats:
Originally posted by Hawkeye:
didn't even field a standard issue sub machine gun

Type-100 and MP-18

They only began production of the Type 100 in 1944 and less than 100 ever left the home islands. Not one ever turned up in the Pacific to fight the Americans. The Japanese Army had a soldier's toolkit much closer to the way Armies looked in 1912 or 1905 even because they were always fighting in China-against peasants armed with sticks. In a Company of Heroes game-the Japanese will have no role that doesn't stretch history apart unless you create an entire game mode that works for them.
Blitzwing Oct 3, 2023 @ 11:19pm 
Originally posted by 4th Survivor:
I wanted to ask COH3 something, you have several coh, I played them all. I realized a long time ago that you never put the Japanese empire in the game. Why is that? You have the Germans, Soviets, British, US and you never thought about insert the Japanese faction, why not insert the empire along with the axis?
Problem is SEGA, is an Japan Publisher.
Valerian Oct 4, 2023 @ 4:21am 
No, the problem is that the only theatre there is for a Company of Heroes game with Japan is China-Burma-India. The game would be very different from typical CoH affair too. It could work-but I think it'd take a lot of getting used to for guys to see an 81mm mortar as the last item on a Doctrine tree.
IEatCats Oct 4, 2023 @ 5:54am 
Originally posted by Hawkeye:
They only began production of the Type 100 in 1944 and less than 100 ever left the home islands. Not one ever turned up in the Pacific to fight the Americans.

Type-100/40 was already in use in 1942 in Indonesia. Initial 1942 production run has about 1,000 including infantry and paratroop versions

The 1944 Type-100/44 is a modified version with about 7000-8000 made

No idea where '100' came from

Originally posted by Hawkeye:
Not one ever turned up in the Pacific to fight the Americans.

Luzon campaign

Originally posted by Hawkeye:
The Japanese Army had a soldier's toolkit much closer to the way Armies looked in 1912 or 1905
Every country that participated in the war had WW1 looking armies at the start, the US was much poorer in tank development by the end of 1941

Originally posted by Hawkeye:
because they were always fighting in China-against peasants armed with sticks.
Suggest you read more than your own unstructured thoughts or stereotypical movies, China was not 'armed with sticks'

Originally posted by Hawkeye:
In a Company of Heroes game-the Japanese will have no role that doesn't stretch history apart unless you create an entire game mode that works for them.

Using the DaK unit lineup 'limits' would fit nicely
Last edited by IEatCats; Oct 4, 2023 @ 6:07am
Blitzwing Oct 4, 2023 @ 6:00am 
Japan works fine and has for WW2 full historical rooster, just check this games
man of war and ruse
https://menofwar.fandom.com/wiki/Japan
https://ruse.fandom.com/wiki/Japan
Valerian Oct 4, 2023 @ 6:32am 
Originally posted by IEatCats:
Originally posted by Hawkeye:
They only began production of the Type 100 in 1944 and less than 100 ever left the home islands. Not one ever turned up in the Pacific to fight the Americans.

Type-100/40 was already in use in 1942 in Indonesia. Initial 1942 production run has about 1,000 including infantry and paratroop versions

The 1944 Type-100/44 is a modified version with about 7000-8000 made

Production figures =/= fielded weapons of which few ever went out. Not that it matters because 8000 of any smallarm in WW2 is statistically irrelevant. Those are rookie numbers.

You wanna have Japanese troops running around with an SMG they issued in extremely limited quantity and that literally nobody makes note of in accounts of the war (except to mention that it existed at all)? Sure ok. It's completely you're own fictional conceit that didn't exist. But I can't wait to watch you rationalize Japanese SMG squads that never existed.



Luzon campaign

Who cares? You're missing the point.

Every country that participated in the war had WW1 looking armies at the start, the US was much poorer in tank development by the end of 1941

This is is just straight up dishonesty and you know it. Japan got absolutely wrecked by the Red Army in Khaklin Gol because of just this self perception. That everyone else was "just as bad" and decripit as they were.

Nope. It turned out the Japanese Army's toolkit was seriously compromised by a lack of most essential tools for making war in the 20th century let alone World War 2. I could point out the obvious lack of things like an infantry anti-tank rocket launcher or the SMG that didn't even exist until 1944-but i'm getting tired of this and suggest you just read Leland Ness's books "Rikugun" and "Kangzhan" to get an idea of how incredibly daft your reasoning is here. It's all cherry picking.

It actually sounds a lot like the stuff Imperial General Headquarters itself was pushing tbh.

Originally posted by Hawkeye:
Suggest you read more than your own unstructured thoughts or stereotypical movies, China was not 'armed with sticks'

They were literally unarmed. See: The Nationalist Government's struggles to get a domestic *rifle* into production. A RIFLE. The weapon settled on was a copy of the German Mauser and serial production never exceeded enough examples to equip more than a few divisions.

Again. You *can* make a game featuring just these units-but the way I see you're making fiction. The War in China only made Japan look like a viable Army because by comparison-the people they were fighting were literally unarmed peasants who were just trying not to starve and avoid forced impressement by either side. It is telling that Chinese Artillery was so often *captured Japanese Guns*...

Using the DaK unit lineup 'limits' would fit nicely

With what tanks lmao. The Chi Ha???? Can't wait to see that fight the Sherman. You're going to be turning to prototypes and limited production vehicles by T1. I can't wait to see what T4 looks like in your grand plan.

You're either going to be using heaps of cheap spam units or the Japanese Faction you've invented is fictional lol. We're talking about an Army that did not issue a basic field ration even and encouraged them to raid local villagers for supplies. They were not a balanced Army for 1941. Dangerous, cunning, and bold they were but those force multipliers increasingly failed them as the war went on-and proved to be no substitute for a properly balanced combined arms toolkit of modern tanks, small arms, and artillery. You know, the stuff that stars in Company of Heroes?

There's a reason Italy is a doctrine tree for DAK yo...

It's ironic I find myself in this position because the one element of Japanese strategy in the war that is routinely criticized-the war against the USA-I actually don't think was as unwise as is often claimed. Imperial GHQ just didn't stick to its own plan and maybe hurt itself with the raid on Pearl Harbour more than it helped itself. Of course all of this is because unlike the Army-the Imperial Navy was actually a more balanced force with fewer design problems and even a few sharp advantages in aviation and ship quality they expended in unwise prestige raids...

But the Imperial Army...in a CoH game I just lol.
Last edited by Valerian; Oct 4, 2023 @ 6:54am
Alex S. Oct 4, 2023 @ 7:03am 
Originally posted by IEatCats:
This question has been asked many times

Relic did not find the Japanese arsenal to be suitable for CoH due its to relative lack of late war tech. This being said Italians were not mad their own faction CoH3 so we are left with the sameish US/British vs 2 german factions again, just no Soviets

For this entry Relic have also said that they prioritized "Prioritizes Authenticity while pushing artistic boundaries"

Company of Heroes 3 Developer Diary // Art & Authenticity

Before the pseudo historians chime in, game developers are not historians and historians are not game developers. Games do not have to be 100% historically accurate, they should be fun and keep it relatively authentic

The final product we got is really pushing the authenticity to the point of breaking. The unit lineup in particular:

DAK: Chose to name a faction that ceased to exist post Africa, though its unit line up is actually the most authentic one

British: The worst of the lot, they insisted on including a Tiger-like tank and used a prototype that never saw combat. Has the oddest mix of early war tech and latter war tech which replaced some of the early tech ones entirely

US: Slightly better than British, although it also mixes some of the early war and late game tech, oddly omitting some since they would overlap in function (M18 Hellcat instead of M10, no Lee tanks etc)

Wermacht: Is DaK with some units changed, many of these are from the previous games

Would advise getting mods if you want to play as other Axis factions


To be honest, I am disappointed as many other players regarding this answer.
Game need something new, something unique to can refresh gameplay and to increase the community. I know that some things can be hard to be implement and keep them balanced, but at this moment game look like worst variant of COH 2.
I am still hoping that game will be revived and will take again the title of best RTS.
IEatCats Oct 4, 2023 @ 7:05am 
Originally posted by Hawkeye:

Production figures =/= fielded weapons of which few ever went out. Not that it matters because 8000 of any smallarm in WW2 is statistically irrelevant. Those are rookie numbers.

You wanna have Japanese troops running around with an SMG they issued in extremely limited quantity and that literally nobody makes note of in accounts of the war (except to mention that it existed at all)? Sure ok. It's completely you're own fictional conceit that didn't exist. But I can't wait to watch you rationalize Japanese SMG squads that never existed.

Rookie numbers compared to other infantry weapons yes

Japanese paratrooper regiments all used this SMG

The books on this page at the further reading section should clear any doubts this was ficitional

http://plasticsoldierreview.com/review.aspx?id=2572

Originally posted by Hawkeye:
This is is just straight up dishonesty and you know it. Japan got absolutely wrecked by the Red Army in Khaklin Gol because of just this self perception. That everyone else was "just as bad" and decripit as they were.

The Red army tanks were just as bad as the Japanese ones and the biggest advantage they have was surprise

Nope. It turned out the Japanese Army's toolkit was seriously compromised by a lack of most essential tools for making war in the 20th century let alone World War 2.

Originally posted by Hawkeye:
lack of things like an infantry anti-tank rocket launcher

No one had a rocket launched AT weapon at the start, and the Soviets didn't have their own until after the war, so no idea what are you raging about

Originally posted by Hawkeye:
or the SMG that didn't even exist until 1944
Originally posted by Hawkeye:
but i'm getting tired of this and suggest you just read Leland Ness's books "Rikugun" and "Kangzhan" to get an idea of how incredibly daft your reasoning is here.
The books you mentioned actually states the Type-100 SMG was used by IJA paratroopers (as early as Indonesia 1942) and some IJN units also received it, you should read better

Originally posted by Hawkeye:
They were literally unarmed. See: The Nationalist Government's struggles to get a domestic *rifle* into production. A RIFLE. The weapon settled on was a copy of the German Mauser and serial production never exceeded enough examples to equip more than a few divisions.

Not sure why we are talking about China's problems, given the situation when they took over which needed far more time to recover. The fact that they almost finished off the Communists until the Japanese invasion and still managed to hold the invaders to a stalemate for a few years after losing large parts until end of the war despite the lack of support equipment (mechanized, tanks, planes and modern artillery)
Last edited by IEatCats; Oct 4, 2023 @ 7:07am
Katitoff Oct 4, 2023 @ 7:25am 
Originally posted by Blitzwing:
Japan works fine and has for WW2 full historical rooster, just check this games
man of war and ruse
https://menofwar.fandom.com/wiki/Japan
https://ruse.fandom.com/wiki/Japan
They are filling the game with concepts and prototypes that never left testing phases.

Japan had 2 light tanks in actual production.

Places they were waging wars were jungles and mountain terrain, places tanks are unfeasable, hence they did not built them.

Their heavy industry was their navy, they didn't even had enough raw material to deploy tanks and pretty much all of their army was infantry with small arms and hand pulled support guns.
IEatCats Oct 4, 2023 @ 7:32am 
Originally posted by Katitoff:

Places they were waging wars were jungles and mountain terrain, places tanks are unfeasable, hence they did not built them.

Oh look we have a British mentality of 1942 in the Malayan campaign

Originally posted by Katitoff:
Their heavy industry was their navy, they didn't even had enough raw material to deploy tanks

3,400 tanks of Chi-Ha and Ha-Go tanks disagree with this 'not enough raw material to deploy tanks'

Originally posted by Katitoff:
and pretty much all of their army was infantry with small arms

Mortars exist
Valerian Oct 4, 2023 @ 7:52am 
We can make a game about a 1942 Malaya lol. I'm just asking if you're ok with the 2pdr being at the end of a doctrine tree.

3,400 tanks of Chi-Ha and Ha-Go tanks disagree with this 'not enough raw material to deploy tanks'

Are you going to provide context for the worthless rote numbers you dump sometime? Is 3,400 tanks armed with a puny 47mm gun and no coax a good tank for a CoH game? Does the Ha-Go, a tank which weighs 7 tons and was about as well protected as the Bren Carrier have any business in a game where it will be facing the 75mm guns on average or even worse-the Bazooka?

I'm not saying you can't do a CoH Pacific. I'm just saying you're going to have to come up with something to compel battles other than map captures and victory points because any gameplay emphasizing even sports-like confrontations between Allied troops and Japanese simply Will Not Be Fair without inventing heaps of fiction. Like do it if you want bro i'm just as disappointed as you are that Japan doesn't figure in any of these games but my point is, it's not because no one has tried...

Mortars exist

One would be completely forgiven for thinking the Japanese didn't have them given how rarely they are mentioned in encounters on Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Leyte, etc.
Last edited by Valerian; Oct 4, 2023 @ 7:55am
Blitzwing Oct 4, 2023 @ 7:53am 
Originally posted by Katitoff:
Originally posted by Blitzwing:
Japan works fine and has for WW2 full historical rooster, just check this games
man of war and ruse
https://menofwar.fandom.com/wiki/Japan
https://ruse.fandom.com/wiki/Japan
They are filling the game with concepts and prototypes that never left testing phases.

Japan had 2 light tanks in actual production.

Places they were waging wars were jungles and mountain terrain, places tanks are unfeasable, hence they did not built them.

Their heavy industry was their navy, they didn't even had enough raw material to deploy tanks and pretty much all of their army was infantry with small arms and hand pulled support guns.
So its either fictional Japan /Italy tech,
or moving more in the timeline,
where its is just US vs Soviet tech.
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Date Posted: Sep 26, 2023 @ 6:01am
Posts: 24