Ideas for balance

[Maximvs]

many coh3 streamers agree that the game is unbalanced, I could put many videos, but for brevity I just put this example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnatshsdOiU&ab_channel=GreyshotProductions

- How to fix: Make R8 the vehicle it should be, a Heavy armored car, not an undercover flak tank. Reduce armor and hp, so it not require 5 shots from AT to destroy it.

- Nerf Shreks: from 160 damage to 140 to try to fix jaeger blob.

- Buff Bazooka: from 60 damage to 70 to make this weapon a (kind of) real anti-tank.

- Increase whizbang range at least 30%, Half track and hellcat barrage ability by 15%

This should even thing a bit.

[The MidgetCrusader69]

no no no no lol those are all wrong things to balance
The worst offender is still the spam of AT rifle boys

There is nothing wrong with Shreks they are quite costly.. In Coh 2 you had a pair of panzershrecks and they did even more damage. Nobody complained. Learn to counter them

[Golgothian]

CoH 3 balancing threads on Steam in a nutshell, right here:

First guy plays 99% only Allies and wants only Axis nerfed.

Second guy plays 99% Axis and wants only Allies nerfed.

[Eryan]

Originally posted by The MidgetCrusader69:

no no no no lol those are all wrong things to balance
The worst offender is still the spam of AT rifle boys

There is nothing wrong with Shreks they are quite costly.. In Coh 2 you had a pair of panzershrecks and they did even more damage. Nobody complained. Learn to counter them

Axis spams light vehicles, UKF players who don't know ebetter spamm AT boys to counter vehicle spam. AT boy blobs post nerf are litterally caused by Axis rush for vehicles.

The few times I get more than 1 AT boy I get punished for it because my Anti infantry game takes a massive it.

[Katitoff]

Well, that's one way to say you have no slightest idea what is wrong with balance and therefore no idea how to fix it.

Unfortunately, Graysgot has no idea what he is talking about there.

He loiters around the problems, but is completely incapable to pinpoint them.

-DAK 8rad will always feel very strong because of upgrades and armored bg abilities, upgraded DAK vehicles feel really strong, even 250/9. Oh and 8rad dies in 3 shots from ATG, 4 if upgraded and vetted up and its only DAK 8rad, wehr one is much more squishy, more expensive and arrives later. Their fuel cost is irrelevant, primarily AI vehicles with some light AT are in 35-45 fuel range.

-Bersaligeris are most expensive mainline inf in the whole game and have no AT nades, get fast vehicle and you hardcountered them completely, their speed advantage is nullified completely by the fact opponent will always have more squads on the field.

-shreck is not why jager blobs exist, jager blobs exist for the exact same reason why BOYS blobs exist, squad overall is too effective anti-all unit, shreck potency is not an issue here, 4 rifles are, BOYS and shrecks can NOT be upgrades, they need to be side-grades, these squads have to give up something in return for their potent AT, taking away their grenades would be one way to do so, taking away 1 man from shreck jagers would also work.

-there is absolutely nothing wrong with bazookas, they are cheap, mp only AT squad that is easily available from early game and does not require any muni investment. Its cheapest, most spammable AT in the game and they perform very good for their cost.

-Whizzbang range is perfectly find, CoH2 rocket arty times are gone, move on.
M3 ATHT and wehr silly 251 upgrade should indeed have a longer range for both, barrage and base attacks.

Keep in mind a whole lot of people discussing balance never adapted to CoH3 standards and are still looking at things through CoH2 prism, where exclusively a single LV should be allowed at high cost before med tank spam begins.
No, that's CoH2.
CoH3 was always supposed to be about LVs being viable for the whole game and in numbers.

[Eryan]

Originally posted by Katitoff:

-there is absolutely nothing wrong with bazookas, they are cheap, mp only AT squad that is easily available from early game and does not require any muni investment. Its cheapest, most spammable AT in the game and they perform very good for their cost.

I agree with you on most point except bazookas. All allied bazooka units have the same bazooks from what I've seen. This means that a 400 mp foot guard needs to deal with the fact that their shots bounce 50%+ of the time when shooting at PZ4's. Now imagine how many shots you bounce on a brumbär or a tiger.

UKF's only good AT is the 17 pounder, you know, the thing that gets stukad/loitered/mortared/airdropped onto and falchpio naded into olbivion as soon as it's spotted because it doesn't have the ability to move or turn without you microing it.

Compare this to the 88 which can turn around and deal with flankers as well as kill airplanes.
17 pounder is a win more weapon, the game actually punishes you for recruiting it when the enemy has the advantage.

What does this mean in game? Kill all jaegers with panzerschrecks and hope to god they drop so I can equip a section with 2 of em and actually kill tanks without having to trade foot guards + sections for 1 brumbar.
Because panzerschrecks penetrate almost every shot even on tigers front armor.

And no, getting crusaders to flank axis tanks doesn't work because jaegers will kill whatever crusader you send flanking. At msot I grab 1 matilda to hopefully face tank 1 jaeger blob volley while my MG's and sections get in position.
UKF is literally an infantry faction in the current meta because everything else is either a waste of resources or dies to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.


Inb4 churchill/black prince...
You mean the "Let's see how fast I can waste mp and fuel to loiters" because they can't move/dodge and UKF needs 3+ AA vehicles to counter loiters while your own loiters are dead to the same weapon that kills your churchills?
Why yes I hate this battle group, how did you know?

[Katitoff]

Originally posted by Eryan:

Originally posted by Katitoff:

-there is absolutely nothing wrong with bazookas, they are cheap, mp only AT squad that is easily available from early game and does not require any muni investment. Its cheapest, most spammable AT in the game and they perform very good for their cost.

I agree with you on most point except bazookas. All allied bazooka units have the same bazooks from what I've seen. This means that a 400 mp foot guard needs to deal with the fact that their shots bounce 50%+ of the time when shooting at PZ4's. Now imagine how many shots you bounce on a brumbär or a tiger.

UKF's only good AT is the 17 pounder, you know, the thing that gets stukad/loitered/mortared/airdropped onto and falchpio naded into olbivion as soon as it's spotted because it doesn't have the ability to move or turn without you microing it.

Compare this to the 88 which can turn around and deal with flankers as well as kill airplanes.
17 pounder is a win more weapon, the game actually punishes you for recruiting it when the enemy has the advantage.

What does this mean in game? Kill all jaegers with panzerschrecks and hope to god they drop so I can equip a section with 2 of em and actually kill tanks without having to trade foot guards + sections for 1 brumbar.
Because panzerschrecks penetrate almost every shot even on tigers front armor.

And no, getting crusaders to flank axis tanks doesn't work because jaegers will kill whatever crusader you send flanking. At msot I grab 1 matilda to hopefully face tank 1 jaeger blob volley while my MG's and sections get in position.
UKF is literally an infantry faction in the current meta because everything else is either a waste of resources or dies to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.


Inb4 churchill/black prince...
You mean the "Let's see how fast I can waste mp and fuel to loiters" because they can't move/dodge and UKF needs 3+ AA vehicles to counter loiters while your own loiters are dead to the same weapon that kills your churchills?
Why yes I hate this battle group, how did you know?

Again, I'm going to refer coh2 vs coh3.

We have side armor in this one.

Don't use handheld AT frontally, get a bit to the side and they'll perform well, or get closer, AT weapons in CoH3 have ridiculous penetration values up-close.

As for the foot guards example, they are actually anti-all squad done properly, they are what jagers should be. You don't want to spam them, but its never a bad idea to have one around.

Oh and there aren't exclusively P4s around as much as DAK is inpopular at lower level gameplay, P3s have 130 armor, which is paper vs bazookas.

[Eryan]

Originally posted by Katitoff:

We have side armor in this one.
Don't use handheld AT frontally, get a bit to the side and they'll perform well, or get closer, AT weapons in CoH3 have ridiculous penetration values up-close.

I don't shot them from the front except for when there's no other option.
Even the sides bounce like crazy.

And no, 1 foot guard isn't enough. 1 is never going to secure you a kill. You need to at least 2. Maybe even 2 groups of 2 foot guards each for easier flanks/rapid response depending on how heavy the armor spam is.

You say they are anti everything. Well, that only works if you get close enough to use their SMG's. Bersas outrun them, jaegers slaugher them and they can't create smoke like jaegers and gustas to let them get closer.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that they should have smoke. But they sure as hell aren't the anti everything when they get slaughtered by everything before they get close enough.

There's a reason I said I need to sacrifice sections and foot guards to secure tank kills with foot guards. It's because you get punished for flanking with foot guards while your sections and that one lone matilda draws fire. Even then it's easy to retarget and slaughter foot guards.

[Maximvs]

Originally posted by Eryan:

Originally posted by Katitoff:

-there is absolutely nothing wrong with bazookas, they are cheap, mp only AT squad that is easily available from early game and does not require any muni investment. Its cheapest, most spammable AT in the game and they perform very good for their cost.

I agree with you on most point except bazookas. All allied bazooka units have the same bazooks from what I've seen. This means that a 400 mp foot guard needs to deal with the fact that their shots bounce 50%+ of the time when shooting at PZ4's. Now imagine how many shots you bounce on a brumbär or a tiger.

UKF's only good AT is the 17 pounder, you know, the thing that gets stukad/loitered/mortared/airdropped onto and falchpio naded into olbivion as soon as it's spotted because it doesn't have the ability to move or turn without you microing it.

Compare this to the 88 which can turn around and deal with flankers as well as kill airplanes.
17 pounder is a win more weapon, the game actually punishes you for recruiting it when the enemy has the advantage.

What does this mean in game? Kill all jaegers with panzerschrecks and hope to god they drop so I can equip a section with 2 of em and actually kill tanks without having to trade foot guards + sections for 1 brumbar.
Because panzerschrecks penetrate almost every shot even on tigers front armor.

And no, getting crusaders to flank axis tanks doesn't work because jaegers will kill whatever crusader you send flanking. At msot I grab 1 matilda to hopefully face tank 1 jaeger blob volley while my MG's and sections get in position.
UKF is literally an infantry faction in the current meta because everything else is either a waste of resources or dies to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.


Inb4 churchill/black prince...
You mean the "Let's see how fast I can waste mp and fuel to loiters" because they can't move/dodge and UKF needs 3+ AA vehicles to counter loiters while your own loiters are dead to the same weapon that kills your churchills?
Why yes I hate this battle group, how did you know?

Yes, allied infantry AT is just worst, guards of 400 mp or US commandos of 440 mp all have this uselles bazookas that underperform badly compared to it unit´s price. Also there is always more "micro" to do with allies, you have to hit the rear armor, the side armor... where with jaeger you just order the blob to attack to the front of a tank and oneshot it.

Also 88 that turn arounr 360° and also is AA... that problem here is not the 88 but that the brits need something similar, because the only-towed 17 pounder are aesily flanked and loitered.

Jager Shreks need a nerf and zooks, at least for elite troops need a buff.