Have the developers said anything about Vichy units?

[komi]

Just curious. I've heard that there are some Italian units available for one of the German factions, so I'm wondering whether the devs have said anything about the possibility of Vichy French units being similarly available?

Part of this game is set in North-Africa, and Vichy France had colonial control over places like Morocco (there were Vichy units fighting the Americans during Operation Torch), so I thought it might be interesting to see them in the game, particularly since Vichy France gets almost no presence in WW2 games. I wouldn't say they'd warrant their own faction, but maybe have a few units available to the Afrika Korps players?

[Emperor of Frogs]

it won't happens, hopefully.

[Lo Burattino]

They didn't care enough to make an Italian faction, do you really think they'll make a Vichy one?

[komi]

Originally posted by Lo Burattino:

They didn't care enough to make an Italian faction, do you really think they'll make a Vichy one?

I wasn't talking about a Vichy Faction. If you read the last bit of my post you'll see I said it could be enough to just have some Vichy Units for the Africa Korps player.

[Major von Stieglitz]

They care about nothing

[komi]

Does this game feature the same "commanders" system that COH2 had? If so, I could see how a Vichy "commander" for the Afrika Korps players might work, giving them some access to Vichy units similar to how there was a "commander" that gave access to Osttruppen units for Wehrmacht players in COH2.

[Zakalwe]

It'd be very painful for the French market to see this! That being said, I think it's a very interesting idea. France's role in the war was chaotic and difficult. WW1 really damaged their national psychology, and it shows in the way everyone, from the leadership right down to the rank and file, reacted to the conflict.

[Trem]

A single Vichy squad could be neat.
I think it would fit the DAK most of all, considering the only organized fighting I can think of took place in North Africa.

[Zakalwe]

Originally posted by Trem:

A single Vichy squad could be neat.
I think it would fit the DAK most of all, considering the only organized fighting I can think of took place in North Africa.

A job for the mod community I think. For the Official game, it's probably best to sweep all that under the carpet, to be honest. It's not going to add much to the game other than providing massive amount of ammo for huge forum flame wars. It's bad enough on the Steam forum as it is right now. Have you seen some of those threads?!

[komi]

Originally posted by Zakalwe:

It'd be very painful for the French market to see this! That being said, I think it's a very interesting idea. France's role in the war was chaotic and difficult. WW1 really damaged their national psychology, and it shows in the way everyone, from the leadership right down to the rank and file, reacted to the conflict.

More painful than for German players to relive their Nazi past in every WW2 game ever made? And yet they seem ok with it, I've seen plenty of Germans posting on the forum around here ;)

Originally posted by Trem:

A single Vichy squad could be neat.
I think it would fit the DAK most of all, considering the only organized fighting I can think of took place in North Africa.

I think perhaps one or two infantry squads and maybe one armoured or artillery unit would be interesting. I know there were Vichy French infantry and artillery units fighting in North-Africa, although I'm not as sure about armour...

Originally posted by Zakalwe:

A job for the mod community I think. For the Official game, it's probably best to sweep all that under the carpet, to be honest. It's not going to add much to the game other than providing massive amount of ammo for huge forum flame wars. It's bad enough on the Steam forum as it is right now. Have you seen some of those threads?!

Personally I wouldn't want to see it relegated to a mod. In all likelihood in that case we'd just get some cut-and-paste German unit with a bit of flavour text to say they're Vichy. But if it was something integrated into the game by the devs themselves, we'd have the potential for the right character models, weapons, voice acting, etc.

As for "sweeping it under the carpet", I guess that depends on your feelings but personally I'm not in favour of any history being "swept under the carpet". Who was it that said that if we forget the mistakes of the past we're doomed to repeat them?

Given that the youth of today seem to learn a lot of what they know about history from movies and video-games, I think that the inclusion of Vichy French units in this game might even help stimulate a bit of interest among players to learn some of that history, which is too often ignored in popular media concerning WW2 (it usually just gets simplified down to "germans vs. brits/yanks/russians").

[General Max Hoffman]

Originally posted by komi:

Originally posted by Zakalwe:

Personally I wouldn't want to see it relegated to a mod. In all likelihood in that case we'd just get some cut-and-paste German unit with a bit of flavour text to say they're Vichy. But if it was something integrated into the game by the devs themselves, we'd have the potential for the right character models, weapons, voice acting, etc.

Given that the youth of today seems to learn a lot of what they know about history from movies and video-games, I think that the inclusion of Vichy French units in this game might even have potential to stimulate a bit of interest among players in learning some of that history, which is too often ignored in popular media concerning WW2 (it usually just gets simplified down to "germans vs. brits/yanks/russians").

You think these devs would treat the subject properly? given the cartoon Hollywood way they decided to do the main German campaign in the game?

[komi]

Originally posted by General Max Hoffman:

You think these devs would treat the subject properly? given the cartoon Hollywood way they decided to do the main German campaign in the game?

I don't know how they treated it, I haven't had a chance to try this game yet.

[IEatCats]

Have to wait and see, units added should serve a purpose for gameplay but lets not go to the point of creating a problem then selling the solution (looking at you CoH2 Special Weapons Regiment)

We already have the Black Prince Churchill because Relic wants every faction to have heavy tanks (there are other tanks that use the same weapon as the Black Prince which saw combat)

Also don't trust Relic with mods, we already experienced what happened the last time with CoH2 (yes technical difficulties, don't promise the sky if you can't deliver)

[Blitzwing]

Originally posted by Zakalwe:

It'd be very painful for the French market to see this! That being said, I think it's a very interesting idea. France's role in the war was chaotic and difficult. WW1 really damaged their national psychology, and it shows in the way everyone, from the leadership right down to the rank and file, reacted to the conflict.

Why? Why is it wrong to show people true history?
There have been French who did fight for the Germany in WW2, there have been Soviets who did fight for the Germany in WW2, there have been Polands who did fight for the Germany in WW2, there have even been US-Americans who did fight for the Germany in WW2.

Like the famous Battle of Castle Itter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Castle_Itter

Germany with Vichy France vs US with French Resistance makes sense.

[Zakalwe]

France doesn't really dwell on WW2, for obvious reasons. There's very little to be gained in adding VIchy units to the German side, other than losing sales revenue and brand loyalty in French markets. After all, COH isn't a gritty historical documentary...it's a fun game!

[Blitzwing]

Originally posted by Zakalwe:

France doesn't really dwell on WW2, for obvious reasons. There's very little to be gained in adding VIchy units to the German side, other than losing sales revenue and brand loyalty in French markets. After all, COH isn't a gritty historical documentary...it's a fun game!

You might be surprised, but Eugen Systems as France developer from France,
did add to their WW2 RTS game Vichy French as a playable faction.
And people love it, the way it is, even the people from France.