Mimic scaling early is a bit crazy

[Leiraion]

We just started chapter 4, did a couple of low level 0 fights, went into spider cave.
The 2 fights in the cave were quite easy, even at level 0 for the level 1 cave.

However, the first room was a chest, we risked it and lockpicked it... mimic.
NP, it's part of the game.
The problem we had with this was that the lvl 1 Mimic had 45 hp with 6 armor.

Now... the HP I'm fine with.... the Armor is absolutely ridiculous. It took so long to kill that it ate 2 weapons from our group... which at that point had no extras.

Lvl 1 mimic probably shouldn't have 6 armor.

[Tsuru]

Oooor we can learn from that experience. By balancing the party between magic/physical dmg. Or understanding that next time we dont casually open chests if we arent prepared to face a mimic. Or lettings your physical characters have a magic dmg weapon for the fight, or having backup weapons.

making the game easier shouldnt be the default go to

[FraGmenToR]

Did you literally have nothing with pierce armour? Theres ways around high armour at the start. But you will probably need to burn some focus.

[Leiraion]

You guys responding are amazing.
Read my OP, it was the first dungeon in the chapter immediately at the start of the game.
There was a party balance between phys and magic. That's why we killed it and completed the dungeon without losing.
I'm simply stating that due to the nature of it being so early in the game, it was not realistic to have to deal with 6 armor.

The 2 fights after this room, with the spiders/bats were in packs of 5. Those fights were very easy comparably.

[Tsuru]

Originally posted by Leiraion:

You guys responding are amazing.
Read my OP, it was the first dungeon in the chapter immediately at the start of the game.
There was a party balance between phys and magic. That's why we killed it and completed the dungeon without losing.
I'm simply stating that due to the nature of it being so early in the game, it was not realistic to have to deal with 6 armor.

The 2 fights after this room, with the spiders/bats were in packs of 5. Those fights were very easy comparably.

We read it. You also stated you fought a couple level 0 fights. Then decided. Ok hey, were still level 0, lets go to a cave with level 1 guys. Which means. You decided to forgo looking for items to fight things that are suppose to be fought with level 1 guys and have gotten gear and done quests to gear up to be around level 1 power.

You didnt do any of that. So again, its not a matter of making things EASIER, its about adjusting your strategies for future games.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by FraGmenToR:

Did you literally have nothing with pierce armour? Theres ways around high armour at the start. But you will probably need to burn some focus.

So what are ways to pierce high armour at level 1?

[Kashra Fall]

Mimics don't have magic armor. Even a starter mage can do like 10-11 a hit O.o. Did you have no casters?

[Leiraion]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Mimics don't have magic armor. Even a starter mage can do like 10-11 a hit O.o. Did you have no casters?

This is simply not true. I even start with a candy and my casters are not cracking 10 damage.
Alchemist: 2-6 dmg
Scholar: 3-8 dmg
Herbalist: 3-7 dmg
I've already stated we had a balanced party. That's not the point, we didn't lose here.

Originally posted by Tsuru:

We read it. You also stated you fought a couple level 0 fights. Then decided. Ok hey, were still level 0, lets go to a cave with level 1 guys. Which means. You decided to forgo looking for items to fight things that are suppose to be fought with level 1 guys and have gotten gear and done quests to gear up to be around level 1 power.

You didnt do any of that. So again, its not a matter of making things EASIER, its about adjusting your strategies for future games.

I don't think you are really thinking about what I'm saying though.
The mimic at the start of the dungeon was more difficult than the next 2 fights combined.
Do you not understand this is the complaint?

This means that the entire level 1 dungeon was less challenging than the level 1 mimic was.
Grinding to level 1.5-2 and collecting mutliple back-up weapons should not be the pre-req to opening a chest in the first dungeon in the game.

I think the level 1 mimic's armor should be lower. Not its dmg, hp, or anything else. I'm not saying remove it's item chomp or nerf it all around.
I'm saying specifically the level 1 mimic's ARMOR should probably be lowered.

[Tsuru]

Originally posted by Leiraion:

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Mimics don't have magic armor. Even a starter mage can do like 10-11 a hit O.o. Did you have no casters?

This is simply not true. I even start with a candy and my casters are not cracking 10 damage.
I've already stated we had a balanced party. That's not the point, we didn't lose here.

Originally posted by Tsuru:

We read it. You also stated you fought a couple level 0 fights. Then decided. Ok hey, were still level 0, lets go to a cave with level 1 guys. Which means. You decided to forgo looking for items to fight things that are suppose to be fought with level 1 guys and have gotten gear and done quests to gear up to be around level 1 power.

You didnt do any of that. So again, its not a matter of making things EASIER, its about adjusting your strategies for future games.

I don't think you are really thinking about what I'm saying though.
The mimic at the start of the dungeon was more difficult than the next 2 fights combined.
Do you not understand this is the complaint?

This means that the entire level 1 dungeon was less challenging than the level 1 mimic was.
Grinding to level 1.5-2 and collecting mutliple back-up weapons should not be the pre-req to opening a chest in the first dungeon in the game.

And this is the problem. You think there is a problem with the mimic when the problem is from your side. You dont want to adapt, so you want the game to be easier.

It doesnt matter that the rest of the fights were easier. You are fighting a mob, that is designed to be harder then normal mobs for its level, and then trying to fight it before youre prepared. You've accepted this risk when you went into the cave before level 1, then further accepted this risk by opening a chest when you know they can be mimics.

So how do we adapt so NEXT time its not that bad. This is the point of rogue lites/roguelikes.

[Leiraion]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by FraGmenToR:

Did you literally have nothing with pierce armour? Theres ways around high armour at the start. But you will probably need to burn some focus.

So what are ways to pierce high armour at level 1?

There is the shock sword when you are putting in your loadout points. There might be other options but I've not unlocked them in the lore shop if there are.

[Tsuru]

Originally posted by Leiraion:

Originally posted by Lampros:

So what are ways to pierce high armour at level 1?

There is the shock sword when you are putting in your loadout points. There might be other options but I've not unlocked them in the lore shop if there are.

Daggers have stab that pierce armor. I believe some bows have an attack that pierce as well. Not sure about low level ones.

[Leiraion]

Originally posted by Tsuru:

And this is the problem. You think there is a problem with the mimic when the problem is from your side. You dont want to adapt, so you want the game to be easier.

It doesnt matter that the rest of the fights were easier. You are fighting a mob, that is designed to be harder then normal mobs for its level, and then trying to fight it before youre prepared. You've accepted this risk when you went into the cave before level 1, then further accepted this risk by opening a chest when you know they can be mimics.

So how do we adapt so NEXT time its not that bad. This is the point of rogue lites/roguelikes.

In this specific regard, yes, I think the game would be better off if this specific thing was nerfed.
You are saying the mob is designed to be stronger than normal for enemies at it's level....
Yes, that's true. And in all other stages of the game, including my master playthrough of chapter 1, and all my journeyman playthroughs of chapter 1-3 ---- when I ran into a mimic they were always stronger than mobs at equal level.
However, they felt fine. I had zero complaints about them.

But I never encountered one in the first dungeon of the game.

It's not all that unlikely that you'd finish the first area and need to progress out of the first area to continue the story objectives before you have back up weapons....
Your argument is basically "just always skip the chest in the first dungeon"... that means the chests in the first dungeon is imbalanced. x. x....

Perhaps you are playing on apprentice? With ample time to grind in the first zone I'd bet getting numerous fights under your belt and some extra weapons for options is no problem. But on journeyman or master you do not have time to do that.
Again, we didn't die here. We killed it. It did kill 1 person and chomp 2 weapons.
We are now level 5 and much farther into the chapter with no additional deaths or issues.
If this thing had decided to chomp a caster's weapon instead of our phys it would have been a playthrough ending dice roll. I'm having a lot of trouble understanding why you think that would be fun.

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by Leiraion:

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Mimics don't have magic armor. Even a starter mage can do like 10-11 a hit O.o. Did you have no casters?

This is simply not true. I even start with a candy and my casters are not cracking 10 damage.
Alchemist: 2-6 dmg
Scholar: 3-8 dmg
Herbalist: 3-7 dmg
I've already stated we had a balanced party. That's not the point, we didn't lose here.

Originally posted by Tsuru:

We read it. You also stated you fought a couple level 0 fights. Then decided. Ok hey, were still level 0, lets go to a cave with level 1 guys. Which means. You decided to forgo looking for items to fight things that are suppose to be fought with level 1 guys and have gotten gear and done quests to gear up to be around level 1 power.

You didnt do any of that. So again, its not a matter of making things EASIER, its about adjusting your strategies for future games.

I don't think you are really thinking about what I'm saying though.
The mimic at the start of the dungeon was more difficult than the next 2 fights combined.
Do you not understand this is the complaint?

This means that the entire level 1 dungeon was less challenging than the level 1 mimic was.
Grinding to level 1.5-2 and collecting mutliple back-up weapons should not be the pre-req to opening a chest in the first dungeon in the game.

I think the level 1 mimic's armor should be lower. Not its dmg, hp, or anything else. I'm not saying remove it's item chomp or nerf it all around.
I'm saying specifically the level 1 mimic's ARMOR should probably be lowered.

Oh no it's totally true. Starter mage means level 0. A level 0 can run into a night market and get some strong gear, or just some lucky drops. Witches broom even at low level hits AoE and hits very hard, it also has entangle (Roots) which will make the mimic do nothing aside from sit there and grunt.

[Leiraion]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Oh no it's totally true. Starter mage means level 0. A level 0 can run into a night market and get some strong gear, or just some lucky drops. Witches broom even at low level hits AoE and hits very hard, it also has entangle (Roots) which will make the mimic do nothing aside from sit there and grunt.

If you are accomplishing this even on apprentice, you are getting wildly lucky.
Being level 0 when night hits sounds like a huge issue...
Planning any balance around extremely lucky drops seems like a bad idea.

[Gilmoy]

All monster scaling in FtK I and II seems to be strictly linear, with no exceptions.

Mimic: HP = 15.75 (L+2) - 1, Armor = 2(L+2)

L0: 030 HP, 04 Armor
L1: 046 HP, 06 Armor
L2: 062 HP, 08 Armor
L3: 077 HP, 10 Armor
L4: 093 HP, 12 Armor
L5: 109 HP, 14 Armor
L6: 125 HP, 16 Armor

See two levels of the same monster, and you can plot the slope.

~~~~

Monster attack skill damage also seems to scale linearly with level.
Player weapons (can) also scale that way, as you find better stuff.

+ At L1, you can buy a Hammer that does 2-16 Physical.
+ At L5, you can find a Hammer that does 2-28 Physical, or +75%.
+ etc.

L1 Queen's Guard also has Armor 6.
L1 Hag and L1 Young Witch and (full) Witch have Resist 6 vs. your magic damage.
Mimic isn't special enough to warrant being singled out. Complain about them all

[Leiraion]

Originally posted by Gilmoy:

All monster scaling in FtK I and II seems to be strictly linear, with no exceptions.

Mimic: HP = 15.75 (L+2) - 1, Armor = 2(L+2)

L0: 030 HP, 04 Armor
L1: 046 HP, 06 Armor
L2: 062 HP, 08 Armor
L3: 077 HP, 10 Armor
L4: 093 HP, 12 Armor
L5: 109 HP, 14 Armor
L6: 125 HP, 16 Armor

See two levels of the same monster, and you can plot the slope.

~~~~

Monster attack skill damage also seems to scale linearly with level.
Player weapons (can) also scale that way, as you find better stuff.

+ At L1, you can buy a Hammer that does 2-16 Physical.
+ At L5, you can find a Hammer that does 2-28 Physical, or +75%.
+ etc.

L1 Queen's Guard also has Armor 6.
L1 Hag and L1 Young Witch and (full) Witch have Resist 6 vs. your magic damage.
Mimic isn't special enough to warrant being singled out. Complain about them all

Makes sense, the only difference I'd note is that by the time you are running into Queen's Guard for example, you're also furthering the story and moving away from the first town.
As well, the Guard might hit as hard as the mimic but doesn't instantly delete items from your heroes.
Make them lvl 0 in a lvl 1 dungeon then, or simply don't allow them in the first dungeon.
The risk, from what I experienced, makes the future decision to always not open the first dungeon's chest unless you have an identify scroll (which would be very unlikely).
I think basically having to never open the first dungeon's chest is exceptionally unfun.