Allright, Devs, We Need To Talk About How Ridiculously Overtuned this game is.

[Teyar]

So, I'm an older player - Nearly 40. But I've been at high intensity action games since the atari. I'm not going to go on about TeH hArDcOrE Sub 5% Clear Rate Achievements, just trying to say I'm not some salt driven teenager here.

The sheer amount of enemies in play is extreme - Upwards of a dozen hitscanners at a time, with melee pressure units, that take no frontal damage, with a rapidly teleporting harrier, and an artillery piece, that also has rapid fire attacks - Each one of these has counterplay, and skills in use can nullify one or a small AoE's worth of them at a time, but the amount of pressure applied is beyond the ability to simply visually process, let alone actually engage with.

Some of that is absolutely design intention - When all goes right and I'm playing at absolute peak, fantastic, I can chew through a room and come out at full shields with everything having flowed smoothly. One slip up and it punishes to the degree that I swear I'm going from 100 to 0 in under two seconds.

I'm sure there's a measure of reflex and age and git gud to be shouted at me by some - But hey. I'm an older guy, and I'd had a couple basic clears under my belt, so I decided to slow the game down and actually examine it. Cheat Engine's a neat program - One checkbox and I turn the game down to 70% speed. Can't actually edit the numbers with my level of experience with it, by the by - I've filled the metaprogression board almost all the way before even cracking it open.

So what do we see when slowing the game down enough things can be tracked?
Some of these basic mooks are doing 25-50% on a tick. Some of them are doing such aggressive tracking and following, even with engineer's C-ball link and circling them in place, going that they're outright Ps1 ski-spinning and keeping perfect tracking. The first boss's laser is fascinating under this environment - If you move in a precise way at an exact speed I could only feel out, you can stay between the beams, barely. But when it wants to chase, it will catch up, period.

There's near to no hitstun in the game, outside of heavy weapons. The sumo units stick to you like glue and do the same kind of perfect tracking. The dodge-roll approach on the basic melee units in the third zone is absurdly, like insanely fast, dealing damage on their next animation just as quick. The boss of the third zone's raising and lowering platforms happen in a chaotic, indecipherable pattern, with every bit of the fight pushing your attention upwards just to keep track of whats going on. The weak point is only visible from inside the actively shredding your health zone of the tesla coils on the first phase, and they're impossible to double jump / dash over.

It's like you guys played nothing but Dante Must Die mode or its equivalent on every game in your childhood and built to that level on every stage of the design. Your clear rates for most of the characters is down around 3% last I looked. I don't envy the task of trying to figure out a way to balance that all down to sane levels, it's all overlapping and interlinking pieces keeping the pressure on at all points. But you gotta tone this ♥♥♥♥ down, unless you want the ultra-niche triple deluxe hardcore people to ever clear this thing.

And with all those nitpicks at the edges of the design that shape up into some absurd overtuning, then we get to The CEO. Ground waves, air beams, multiple decoys, turrets, and actively consuming the main power source for the player, dodging out of the way, leaving a silouette that's difficult to pick out on a clear screen, let alone the noise filled moments - It's all just too much, especially with her genuinely absurd levels of HP. With that number of tricks in her kit, and the amount of speed, she should be a glass cannon, not a two phase kryptonian brick dropped into this combat system.

My hands hurt. Good game. Please lighten it up a touch.

[Belbe's Phyrexian Toy Collection]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Mjp11:

it was hard until you get the rhythm of marking and killing enemies down, then you just tank hits if necessary and out-regen them with armour.

I think the entire game is fine but the last boss is overtuned in that its extremely difficult to hit her to the point its not fun IMO, you can't stun her or anything. Just need to chip during the small windows of vulnerability.

I feel like you have extremely bad DPS and poor positioning ability, the latter of which you should work on by just playing more games that care about positioning and spacing and playing confidently in your movement and positioning. I say this because you can totally play up close to her and bully her if you want. as for the former you should consider how you're building throughout the run to maximize your DPS within the build you are going for; and the best advice I have for that is similar to the advice I would give a lot of deck building and MTG players who are new. don't make a build with multiple personalities. your win con should be your build and everything should work together as a single cohesive idea.

[Can't-See J. Chimpowitz]

Oprindeligt skrevet af kinginrust:

Oprindeligt skrevet af SNWMN:

but it's worth noting you don't have to keep her at distance if you have even the most rudimentary ability to space your enemy

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, finally my souls instincts get to mingle in first person shooter town! I honestly never paid enough attention to the AI to notice XDD

[Belbe's Phyrexian Toy Collection]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Hong Kong Phooey J Chimpowitz:

Oprindeligt skrevet af kinginrust:

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, finally my souls instincts get to mingle in first person shooter town! I honestly never paid enough attention to the AI to notice XDD

good luck out there agent! :D

[PrettyBoy.]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Teyar:

So, I'm an older player - Nearly 40. But I've been at high intensity action games since the atari. I'm not going to go on about TeH hArDcOrE Sub 5% Clear Rate Achievements, just trying to say I'm not some salt driven teenager here.

The sheer amount of enemies in play is extreme - Upwards of a dozen hitscanners at a time, with melee pressure units, that take no frontal damage, with a rapidly teleporting harrier, and an artillery piece, that also has rapid fire attacks - Each one of these has counterplay, and skills in use can nullify one or a small AoE's worth of them at a time, but the amount of pressure applied is beyond the ability to simply visually process, let alone actually engage with.

Some of that is absolutely design intention - When all goes right and I'm playing at absolute peak, fantastic, I can chew through a room and come out at full shields with everything having flowed smoothly. One slip up and it punishes to the degree that I swear I'm going from 100 to 0 in under two seconds.

I'm sure there's a measure of reflex and age and git gud to be shouted at me by some - But hey. I'm an older guy, and I'd had a couple basic clears under my belt, so I decided to slow the game down and actually examine it. Cheat Engine's a neat program - One checkbox and I turn the game down to 70% speed. Can't actually edit the numbers with my level of experience with it, by the by - I've filled the metaprogression board almost all the way before even cracking it open.

So what do we see when slowing the game down enough things can be tracked?
Some of these basic mooks are doing 25-50% on a tick. Some of them are doing such aggressive tracking and following, even with engineer's C-ball link and circling them in place, going that they're outright Ps1 ski-spinning and keeping perfect tracking. The first boss's laser is fascinating under this environment - If you move in a precise way at an exact speed I could only feel out, you can stay between the beams, barely. But when it wants to chase, it will catch up, period.

There's near to no hitstun in the game, outside of heavy weapons. The sumo units stick to you like glue and do the same kind of perfect tracking. The dodge-roll approach on the basic melee units in the third zone is absurdly, like insanely fast, dealing damage on their next animation just as quick. The boss of the third zone's raising and lowering platforms happen in a chaotic, indecipherable pattern, with every bit of the fight pushing your attention upwards just to keep track of whats going on. The weak point is only visible from inside the actively shredding your health zone of the tesla coils on the first phase, and they're impossible to double jump / dash over.

It's like you guys played nothing but Dante Must Die mode or its equivalent on every game in your childhood and built to that level on every stage of the design. Your clear rates for most of the characters is down around 3% last I looked. I don't envy the task of trying to figure out a way to balance that all down to sane levels, it's all overlapping and interlinking pieces keeping the pressure on at all points. But you gotta tone this ♥♥♥♥ down, unless you want the ultra-niche triple deluxe hardcore people to ever clear this thing.

And with all those nitpicks at the edges of the design that shape up into some absurd overtuning, then we get to The CEO. Ground waves, air beams, multiple decoys, turrets, and actively consuming the main power source for the player, dodging out of the way, leaving a silouette that's difficult to pick out on a clear screen, let alone the noise filled moments - It's all just too much, especially with her genuinely absurd levels of HP. With that number of tricks in her kit, and the amount of speed, she should be a glass cannon, not a two phase kryptonian brick dropped into this combat system.

My hands hurt. Good game. Please lighten it up a touch.

skill diff

[WiZ]

agree 100%....shame another game sacrificed on the idiot altar of "git gud" and awful tuning. games are supposed to be fun not a chore.... the worst thing is if all these elite FPS/roguelike players posting in here spent even half as much time playing the game as they do trashing others skill level it wouldn't be well dead and not linked...
https://steamcharts.com/app/1676130#6m

[Yaman]

Don't see myself beating the last boss on normal, or the second boss on second difficulty without a huge time investment in getting better.
Witchfire is released and Battle Shapers in 1-2 weeks so I just move on, and do a Deadlink every now and then not expecting to make any progress.

[Mr. No_Effs_Given]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Yaman:

Don't see myself beating the last boss on normal, or the second boss on second difficulty without a huge time investment in getting better.
Witchfire is released and Battle Shapers in 1-2 weeks so I just move on, and do a Deadlink every now and then not expecting to make any progress.

Witchfire is hard af, would say is a Dark Souls with guns. But it's very, very, enjoyable, I'm liking it so far.

[Belbe's Phyrexian Toy Collection]

Oprindeligt skrevet af WiZ:

agree 100%....shame another game sacrificed on the idiot altar of "git gud" and awful tuning. games are supposed to be fun not a chore.... the worst thing is if all these elite FPS/roguelike players posting in here spent even half as much time playing the game as they do trashing others skill level it wouldn't be well dead and not linked...
https://steamcharts.com/app/1676130#6m

Imagine blaming other people for your unwillingness to learn. Casual players can easily beat neuromancy so please stop crying and engage with the game. Or maybe God of war is more your speed.

[Can't-See J. Chimpowitz]

This thread is the most butthurt and chafe I have ever read in one place, and I regularly go to r/teachers.

[Mr. No_Effs_Given]

Go play Witchfire, now that's an overtuned game. You level up, but enemies get tougher as well. Its on EA, but that thingy starts harder than this on Neuromancy difficulty .

[Belbe's Phyrexian Toy Collection]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Mr. No_Effs_Given:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Yaman:

Don't see myself beating the last boss on normal, or the second boss on second difficulty without a huge time investment in getting better.
Witchfire is released and Battle Shapers in 1-2 weeks so I just move on, and do a Deadlink every now and then not expecting to make any progress.

Witchfire is hard af, would say is a Dark Souls with guns. But it's very, very, enjoyable, I'm liking it so far.

dark souls is a particularly easy series of games though....... not exactly selling it as challenging are we

[1mbalanced]

Oprindeligt skrevet af kinginrust:

dark souls is a particularly easy series of games though....... not exactly selling it as challenging are we

Mr. git guder, pls. Everybody knows you are the best, you actually should not saying that in every thread

[Yaman]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Mr. No_Effs_Given:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Yaman:

Don't see myself beating the last boss on normal, or the second boss on second difficulty without a huge time investment in getting better.
Witchfire is released and Battle Shapers in 1-2 weeks so I just move on, and do a Deadlink every now and then not expecting to make any progress.

Witchfire is hard af, would say is a Dark Souls with guns. But it's very, very, enjoyable, I'm liking it so far.

Crazy how people got upset, Witchfire is not fair or balanced just a hard broken rogue like game.
Mobs/enemies scale faster than your upgrades.

[Mr. No_Effs_Given]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Yaman:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Mr. No_Effs_Given:

Witchfire is hard af, would say is a Dark Souls with guns. But it's very, very, enjoyable, I'm liking it so far.

Crazy how people got upset, Witchfire is not fair or balanced just a hard broken rogue like game.
Mobs/enemies scale faster than your upgrades.

Yes, first thing i noticed. No point leveling up, you get some measly points of stats, while enemies keep getting stronger and stronger. I will give them the benefit of doubt, since it's just released on EA. Shame it's only on Epic, hard to give feedback since there's no forums whatsoever.

Oprindeligt skrevet af kinginrust:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Mr. No_Effs_Given:

Witchfire is hard af, would say is a Dark Souls with guns. But it's very, very, enjoyable, I'm liking it so far.

dark souls is a particularly easy series of games though....... not exactly selling it as challenging are we

Ok, beat it without taking a single hit then, otherwise git gud.

[Belbe's Phyrexian Toy Collection]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Mr. No_Effs_Given:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Yaman:

Crazy how people got upset, Witchfire is not fair or balanced just a hard broken rogue like game.
Mobs/enemies scale faster than your upgrades.

Yes, first thing i noticed. No point leveling up, you get some measly points of stats, while enemies keep getting stronger and stronger. I will give them the benefit of doubt, since it's just released on EA. Shame it's only on Epic, hard to give feedback since there's no forums whatsoever.

Oprindeligt skrevet af kinginrust:

dark souls is a particularly easy series of games though....... not exactly selling it as challenging are we

Ok, beat it without taking a single hit then, otherwise git gud:lunar2019laughingpig:.

I've done SL1 NG+7 no hit bro, but ok I'd like to see you do it if you're going to issue that challenge <3 <3 <3

oh I've also done SL1 no roll/block/parry but I doubt you could do base SL1