Allright, Devs, We Need To Talk About How Ridiculously Overtuned this game is.

[Teyar]

So, I'm an older player - Nearly 40. But I've been at high intensity action games since the atari. I'm not going to go on about TeH hArDcOrE Sub 5% Clear Rate Achievements, just trying to say I'm not some salt driven teenager here.

The sheer amount of enemies in play is extreme - Upwards of a dozen hitscanners at a time, with melee pressure units, that take no frontal damage, with a rapidly teleporting harrier, and an artillery piece, that also has rapid fire attacks - Each one of these has counterplay, and skills in use can nullify one or a small AoE's worth of them at a time, but the amount of pressure applied is beyond the ability to simply visually process, let alone actually engage with.

Some of that is absolutely design intention - When all goes right and I'm playing at absolute peak, fantastic, I can chew through a room and come out at full shields with everything having flowed smoothly. One slip up and it punishes to the degree that I swear I'm going from 100 to 0 in under two seconds.

I'm sure there's a measure of reflex and age and git gud to be shouted at me by some - But hey. I'm an older guy, and I'd had a couple basic clears under my belt, so I decided to slow the game down and actually examine it. Cheat Engine's a neat program - One checkbox and I turn the game down to 70% speed. Can't actually edit the numbers with my level of experience with it, by the by - I've filled the metaprogression board almost all the way before even cracking it open.

So what do we see when slowing the game down enough things can be tracked?
Some of these basic mooks are doing 25-50% on a tick. Some of them are doing such aggressive tracking and following, even with engineer's C-ball link and circling them in place, going that they're outright Ps1 ski-spinning and keeping perfect tracking. The first boss's laser is fascinating under this environment - If you move in a precise way at an exact speed I could only feel out, you can stay between the beams, barely. But when it wants to chase, it will catch up, period.

There's near to no hitstun in the game, outside of heavy weapons. The sumo units stick to you like glue and do the same kind of perfect tracking. The dodge-roll approach on the basic melee units in the third zone is absurdly, like insanely fast, dealing damage on their next animation just as quick. The boss of the third zone's raising and lowering platforms happen in a chaotic, indecipherable pattern, with every bit of the fight pushing your attention upwards just to keep track of whats going on. The weak point is only visible from inside the actively shredding your health zone of the tesla coils on the first phase, and they're impossible to double jump / dash over.

It's like you guys played nothing but Dante Must Die mode or its equivalent on every game in your childhood and built to that level on every stage of the design. Your clear rates for most of the characters is down around 3% last I looked. I don't envy the task of trying to figure out a way to balance that all down to sane levels, it's all overlapping and interlinking pieces keeping the pressure on at all points. But you gotta tone this ♥♥♥♥ down, unless you want the ultra-niche triple deluxe hardcore people to ever clear this thing.

And with all those nitpicks at the edges of the design that shape up into some absurd overtuning, then we get to The CEO. Ground waves, air beams, multiple decoys, turrets, and actively consuming the main power source for the player, dodging out of the way, leaving a silouette that's difficult to pick out on a clear screen, let alone the noise filled moments - It's all just too much, especially with her genuinely absurd levels of HP. With that number of tricks in her kit, and the amount of speed, she should be a glass cannon, not a two phase kryptonian brick dropped into this combat system.

My hands hurt. Good game. Please lighten it up a touch.

[Five Pebbles]

doctorforbidden a écrit :

Five Pebbles a écrit :

Unfortunately people like to blame the game for their lack of skill.

No, we acknowledge our lack of skill. We're also able to assess whether we can ever gain the degree of skill that's necessary to enjoy the game at the current state it is in. That's why we want things tuned down a notch.

Five Pebbles a écrit :

OP is even using age as a reason, and if he really believes that the game is too hard for him cause he's way too old, then wtf is he doing playing Deadlink? Should a 40 year old dad go in a basketball court being played by 18 year olds and complain that he can't keep up with their athleticism and speed? If you're an aged unathletic 40 year old, know your capabilities and limits, play Basketball with fellow people who is the same age as you. Main point is to stay in your lane, if you're going to complain about a game being too hard and wiling to blame age as the reason, then play games that aren't as intense or as difficult as what this game is.

What are you even talking about here? We're perfectly willing to play basketball with fellow people our age. Again, THAT'S WHY WE'RE ASKING FOR A LOWER DIFFICULTY SETTING THAT WE CAN PLAY AT. What you're ACTUALLY telling us is that we shouldn't play basketball AT ALL just because we can't compete with 18-year-olds on the court. That's just perfectly obnoxious.

And really, maybe take a step back and look at why you're so defensive about other people asking for additional difficulty options in a single-player game. You say the difficulty is fine, great. So why would it matter to you as long as the higher difficulties still exist? Isn't it better all around if more people are able to play the game than fewer people are? It's pretty clear you're less concerned with how the game does than your ego that you've somehow tied to how well you're able to play difficult games, as if that's somehow a medal that anyone other than you inherently cares about.

I don't care about medals, mate. And really? Your posts with the title and everything sounded to me like you want the devs to bend down at your feet and make the entire game easier, nowhere did you specify you want a difficulty before VR orientation. In that case, I have no problem with it. However, I think it's important to note that there's a reason why Dark Souls 1, years before the whole "git gud" and "hard games" become socially acceptable (before it blew up) did not bend down and made an easy mode despite being assaulted by the internet 24/7 for years. Because your first step towards a game will determine your expectation. If Deadlink started at a difficutly where its less intense, easier and more breathable, it definitely would not be as successful as it is now, as it would not have attracted the target audience it was made for. As if a player were to spend 5 hours at a game that's advertise as "intense and difficult" and found it to be a breeze, then the chance of the player spending 5 more hours in the next difficult to be very unlikely. Most would drop it and say "not for me", therefore hurting the chance that the game be circulated in the category it was made for.

[doctorforbidden]

Five Pebbles a écrit :

But there's already the easy difficulty? You don't have to go to Deep Dive and Neuromancy if you don't want to. Optimize your builds, put implants in good slots and select good upgrades, the first one, VR Orientation isn't really that hard

You're not debating in good faith if you refuse to even acknowledge what we've been saying about the default difficulty level, and instead just claiming that it's 'easy'. That's a nonexistent argument, like telling a guy using crutches who's complaining that he can't keep up with your walking speed to 'Just hobble faster. It's easy, see! Why are you complaining when we're not even having to run?'.

Whatever, brah. I'm done replying to you. Have a nice week ahead.

[Can't-See J. Chimpowitz]

Five Pebbles a écrit :

Boss 3 is the best boss fight in the game, you're just bad. Maybe take a look around? See that everyone else aside from you people who suck and complain at the game are beating the 3rd boss, and finding it enjoyable, fun, challenging and fair? If you're nearing 40 and you think you can't keep up, then that's on you, that's not the game's fault now is it? Not only can everyone else keep up, everyone else is dancing on the 3rd boss.

Okay to be fair, that's the first bullet hell boss in the game; it's kind of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, that's what makes it satisfying to steamroll it with a lucky build.

[Can't-See J. Chimpowitz]

♥♥♥♥ I broke the quotes

[bluecricket]

Huh? I've played this game for 65 hours with multiple DD/Neuromancy wins and I think every boss is a mostly unfun slog at high difficulty, with Iskra maybe the most frustrating of the bunch (CEO is still also pretty awful but her HP was nerfed so it's not as bad) because it's pure sensory overload against a million armor points. One of the biggest problem the game has is its lack of feedback when you're actually getting hit by enemies; you can go from full health to 1/1 in an instant and have no idea where it came from or that half the time you even took damage. The other problem is the majority of heavy weapons are really weak.

anyway OP just wait till you unlock the Juggernaut, that thing is the most braindead class of the four and super easy to win with.

[Hazard]

doctorforbidden a écrit :

Five Pebbles a écrit :

Unfortunately people like to blame the game for their lack of skill.

No, we acknowledge our lack of skill. We're also able to assess whether we can ever gain the degree of skill that's necessary to enjoy the game at the current state it is in. That's why we want things tuned down a notch.

Five Pebbles a écrit :

OP is even using age as a reason, and if he really believes that the game is too hard for him cause he's way too old, then wtf is he doing playing Deadlink? Should a 40 year old dad go in a basketball court being played by 18 year olds and complain that he can't keep up with their athleticism and speed? If you're an aged unathletic 40 year old, know your capabilities and limits, play Basketball with fellow people who is the same age as you. Main point is to stay in your lane, if you're going to complain about a game being too hard and wiling to blame age as the reason, then play games that aren't as intense or as difficult as what this game is.

What are you even talking about here? We're perfectly willing to play basketball with fellow people our age. Again, THAT'S WHY WE'RE ASKING FOR A LOWER DIFFICULTY SETTING THAT WE CAN PLAY AT. What you're ACTUALLY telling us is that we shouldn't play basketball AT ALL just because we can't compete with 18-year-olds on the court. That's just perfectly obnoxious.

And really, maybe take a step back and look at why you're so defensive about other people asking for additional difficulty options in a single-player game. You say the difficulty is fine, great. So why would it matter to you as long as the higher difficulties still exist? Isn't it better all around if more people are able to play the game than fewer people are? It's pretty clear you're less concerned with how the game does than your ego that you've somehow tied to how well you're able to play difficult games, as if that's somehow a medal that anyone other than you inherently cares about.

This is absolutly fair. A difficulty option thats lower than current lowest for people who cant beat the game wouldnt effect anyone so not sure why ppl would be against it

[Paradox1126]

i will never ask for a game to be easier. i hate casual games unless the skill ceiling is very high. i'm glad for games like these

[1mbalanced]

I am 38 y o and it is pretty playable. However i am long time quake player and like FPS much.

[Palestrina]

1mbalanced a écrit :

I am 38 y o and it is pretty playable. However i am long time quake player and like FPS much.

Same here, close to 39 now, I'm not as fast as back in the day. But years of Unreal Tournament and Quake gave me some basic understanding and muscle memory of how to apporach these types of games.

[JmonDmon]

Well this thread put me off

[Hazard]

JmonDmon a écrit :

Well this thread put me off

It shouldnt the game is superb and if you can beat Doom Eternal on any dofficulty you will be able to beat this

[SNWMN]

JmonDmon a écrit :

Well this thread put me off

honestly man, don't worry about the opinions of other people on the game. give it a whirl, but note that there is a learning curve at the start

[Teyar]

And to be clear - I HAVE completed the game legit, and I do think it's great, I just think it's way over-tuned.

[1mbalanced]

Okay i beat the game on first two difficulties with every character and must admit that 3rd difficulty is way too harder that previous one. Looks like there is way more rng staff regarding getting the right implants.

Anyway game is great as a shooter and as a roguelike too.

[Hazard]

Teyar a écrit :

And to be clear - I HAVE completed the game legit, and I do think it's great, I just think it's way over-tuned.

Better than too easy