Occupant disease (ending spoilers)

[Quillithe]

The one thing that I really don't understand at all after the ending is exactly what the situation was with the occupant 'disease'

From what we learn, it seems like it was the result of Occupants trying to communicate by extracting people's memories which was overloading them and resulting in their death rather than some sort of 'intentional' killing.

But then it seems like Iris was specifically excluded and not just resistant to it?

And an even bigger pair of questions would be:

1. Why is it airborne? Communion seems to be a related concept and that clearly is not airborne.

2. Why is it still happening? The single occupant is apparently still extracting memories from Iris through communion and specifically not doing so to the other sisters, but they definitely die when their mask is damaged.

[Kot Rajmund]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

The one thing that I really don't understand at all after the ending is exactly what the situation was with the occupant 'disease'

From what we learn, it seems like it was the result of Occupants trying to communicate by extracting people's memories which was overloading them and resulting in their death rather than some sort of 'intentional' killing.

But then it seems like Iris was specifically excluded and not just resistant to it?

And an even bigger pair of questions would be:

1. Why is it airborne? Communion seems to be a related concept and that clearly is not airborne.

2. Why is it still happening? The single occupant is apparently still extracting memories from Iris through communion and specifically not doing so to the other sisters, but they definitely die when their mask is damaged.

1. I don't think it's airborne. From what I understood, the Occupants are drawn to heightened emotions. That's why all of the survivors of the 50 are so deadpan.

2. I don't think it actually is. This is something I'm not super clear on, but from what I interpret, there is no infection and there is no inherent need to wear masks. Watcher drops her mask at the game mid-point and she's basically fine (sans being tortured and blinded that is). I think the Principal also dropped her mask at some point. I'm pretty sure the masks and the "infection" are the Youngest's ploy (and part of the mythos she made up for Iris and the original clones) and she just has those who don't submit executed.

As for Iris - I understand, that during the initial outbreak (the first contact, the one at school) one of the Occupants took interest in Iris (maybe specifically because she was resistant to the Occupants).

[Quillithe]

This would make sense and I wanted to think that was the case too, but then there are other issues.

In particular, the crying disease is described as something Watcher has seen actually happen to sisters in one of the communions. And during the occupant alert section (which could raise other questions) there are far more deaths than just from falling, and it's described as happening from damage to their masks.

It's true that every time we see it directly in the communions is during the tampered communions, but I'm pretty sure the question of immunity comes up in some untampered sections and all of the 50 are wearing helmets so it certainly.

Watcher definitely keeps her mask on the whole time - she takes it off a few minutes before the end (in a communion so not really) and it's commented on. At least I can't think of any point where she ever doesn't have it on.

And I get the feeling Principal doesn't like the fact that she has to hide not needing a mask - besides which her original society is more developed from her feeling she failed and a desire to make amends by making the best companions for Iris rather than a pure desire for control so I don't think she'd make this up for no reason.

[Kot Rajmund]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Watcher definitely keeps her mask on the whole time - she takes it off a few minutes before the end (in a communion so not really) and it's commented on. At least I can't think of any point where she ever doesn't have it on.

She has no mask when she kills Iris. After that she's taken in by Principal, kept prisoner for allmother knows how long and then rescued by Fixer and BBF. She is in terrible shape, but not due to the infection.

The point about Watcher having seen the effects of the disease is a good one though, I've missed that.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Kot Rajmund:

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Watcher definitely keeps her mask on the whole time - she takes it off a few minutes before the end (in a communion so not really) and it's commented on. At least I can't think of any point where she ever doesn't have it on.

She has no mask when she kills Iris. After that she's taken in by Principal, kept prisoner for allmother knows how long and then rescued by Fixer and BBF. She is in terrible shape, but not due to the infection.

The point about Watcher having seen the effects of the disease is a good one though, I've missed that.

Nah, she definitely has it on then, just doublechecked.

It's just very hard to see from a front view ever (since she gets an unobtrusive one for main character reasons) but some of the side view shots you can see during it make it clear. Well - visible - it's more of a faint haze around her mouth from the side.

Besides which when she DOES take it off in chapter 8 you can see she also doesn't have the side of head attachements either since they're part of it.

[Feels good]

I think the disease is definitely not airborne since principal admits to getting her mask off when alone in her monologue at the start of X, its a part of the lie she spread that she also superimposed onto her communion in 1. The "organs turning to water" thing is said in X to happen to failed early clones, and in 9 we are told that the suits of the 50 squad kept their bodies in a good condition -> they might be auxiliairy suits that helped stabilize the Principal's clones, and removing the mask might be what triggers their organ failure, turning into water ! Note that the tearing is also a really good visual theme along with the flooding to resonate with other thematical elements, there could just not be more to it than making for great symbolism and awesome narrative echoing.

[Yes'nt]

I was under the impression you can't trust the memories being told earlier on as they've been altered by Principal, those can't be looked at as pure truth. Especially the founding mythos around the sisters and the youngest, that section it's not marked by times it's marked by chapters in a book. Hence why I find it hard to tell what is absolute truth vs mythologizing by the principal to keep order

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Feels good:

I think the disease is definitely not airborne since principal admits to getting her mask off when alone in her monologue at the start of X, its a part of the lie she spread that she also superimposed onto her communion in 1.

That's true, but I think that's because she was one of the original clones with immnuity.

Remember when principal started doing this she wasn't trying to villianize Iris, just trying to earn her affection. Everything in the communions can be altered, but everything in the society she set up is true (from her point of view). That's the whole reason why she has to set up Watcher, because she changed her mind against her own self.

Basically I'm not seeing any motive for her to set this whole lie up, especially since nothing else about her society is really a lie in the same way.

[LexAnimex]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by Feels good:

I think the disease is definitely not airborne since principal admits to getting her mask off when alone in her monologue at the start of X, its a part of the lie she spread that she also superimposed onto her communion in 1.

That's true, but I think that's because she was one of the original clones with immnuity.

Right. I'm also a little bit confused. In the red ending principal doesn't need to wear a mask because of her immunity. But in the blue ending we can see that "blue" wears a mask.

But that's not our blue, right?
Because our blue takes her mask off and is seeing Iris and the other ancient sisters (=dies?)

And if she doesn't die and the virus is not airborne then why bothering wearing a mask while talking to us (jao) at the end?

[deepFlaw]

Originally posted by LexAnimex:

Originally posted by Quillithe:

That's true, but I think that's because she was one of the original clones with immnuity.

Right. I'm also a little bit confused. In the red ending principal doesn't need to wear a mask because of her immunity. But in the blue ending we can see that "blue" wears a mask.

But that's not our blue, right?
Because our blue takes her mask off and is seeing Iris and the other ancient sisters (=dies?)

And if she doesn't die and the virus is not airborne then why bothering wearing a mask while talking to us (jao) at the end?

So before you make the decisions to decide the ending, part of Secretary's explanation for why they're leaving Earth afterwards includes "The world must be allowed to continue - without my presence and without the disease".

Which I took as saying that they were going to eradicate the disease alongside doing what you decide. Which would mean Blue taking off her mask at the end doesn't mean she's going to die.

That being said... I guess can't explain why she'd then be wearing a mask in the Epitaphs section, then.

[Quillithe]

I'm willing to accept that as only having a game model with a mask or something

[LexAnimex]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

I'm willing to accept that as only having a game model with a mask or something

No they created a nice new model for principal. I think they would do the same for blue. Maybe they want to do a sequel. I kinda want to believe this has a meaning

[LexAnimex]

Originally posted by LexAnimex:

Originally posted by Quillithe:

I'm willing to accept that as only having a game model with a mask or something

No they created a nice new model for principal. I think they would do the same for blue. Maybe they want to do a sequel. I kinda want to believe this has a meaning

Or maybe the blue ending is the bad ending where blue continues the lie haha