Am I doing freeform wrong, or is the game throwing a hissy-fit?

[e.]

So, I tend to make a lot of vehicles with what I'd call "complex hulls", made out of countless extensions, This issue seems to happen only relating to the "hull" part of the tank, rarely happening to turrets. This happens especially when I make track covers, like Maus style. basically, I begin making sideskirts, I get an extension down to cover what I want on the tracks, I make an extension on the front to make a corner piece to cover the sprocket/idler, and even with mirror on, it only does one side, it does the part of the first general shape, but completely ceased to mirror the front piece, I most recently had this issue when making a P.1000 for the Hundred and forty seventeenth time, Am I doing something wrong, or does the game just not really like it when you make skirts that are part of the hull?

[x.god.of.hate.x]

Yea the reason it breaks like that is because you're merging/moving points on one side and then changing the sequence of points merged on the opposite side. Or you just have more points on one side than the other it'll break the mirroring mechanic. If you split and edge only on one side, it'll only move that side.

[e.]

Originally posted by x.god.of.hate.x:

Yea the reason it breaks like that is because you're merging/moving points on one side and then changing the sequence of points merged on the opposite side. Or you just have more points on one side than the other it'll break the mirroring mechanic. If you split and edge only on one side, it'll only move that side.

I dont use the split mechanic at all, I mainly use faces for shaping, an a lot of extending, I really only use edges for of course, a n g l i n g.

[x.god.of.hate.x]

Yea you're probably stretching a single block to its limits and breaking it on the generated side of the designer. If I were you, id try free form side its far easier to use and if something does break you can at least fix it by merging some points together.

[e.]

Originally posted by x.god.of.hate.x:

Yea you're probably stretching a single block to its limits and breaking it on the generated side of the designer. If I were you, id try free form side its far easier to use and if something does break you can at least fix it by merging some points together.

Am I an idiot, or are you suggesting me to use the freeform designer, which Im pretty sure I clearly stated, I'm using?

[x.god.of.hate.x]

Originally posted by e.:

Originally posted by x.god.of.hate.x:

Yea you're probably stretching a single block to its limits and breaking it on the generated side of the designer. If I were you, id try free form side its far easier to use and if something does break you can at least fix it by merging some points together.

Am I an idiot, or are you suggesting me to use the freeform designer, which Im pretty sure I clearly stated, I'm using?

Well your original statement doesn't even really make any sense. Because in Free-form you're SUPPOSED to merge, split and create new points, like the designer is literally designed for. What you stated "I dont use the split mechanic at all, I mainly use faces for shaping, an a lot of extending, I really only use edges for of course, a n g l i n g." was something out of the Generated Side of the designer, something that DOESN'T use points, that uses faces and edges.

My suggestion was to use the Free-Form designer as its designed, by merging points so it doesn't break your game and that should solve your issue.

[x.god.of.hate.x]

Originally posted by OBW:

Originally posted by e.:

So, I tend to make a lot of vehicles with what I'd call "complex hulls", made out of countless extensions, This issue seems to happen only relating to the "hull" part of the tank, rarely happening to turrets. This happens especially when I make track covers, like Maus style. basically, I begin making sideskirts, I get an extension down to cover what I want on the tracks, I make an extension on the front to make a corner piece to cover the sprocket/idler, and even with mirror on, it only does one side, it does the part of the first general shape, but completely ceased to mirror the front piece, I most recently had this issue when making a P.1000 for the Hundred and forty seventeenth time, Am I doing something wrong, or does the game just not really like it when you make skirts that are part of the hull?

Do not listen to the God of Grump. The designer is inherently unstable and buggy. Some shapes are not currently possible to create in-game (hence the mass amount of Blender models flooding the forums). Heavily rounded and complex shapes are most likely to break. As a general rule, split edges sparingly, and copy/backup your blueprints!!!

With that being said, I believe the designer is better than it's reputation. To me, It feels familiar to Autocad, and beautiful designs are possible through patience.

Yea im gonna throw my head back and laugh at you lol. The designer isn't really that buggy if you have actual experience with it. People who come into discussions throwing their weight around like this, usually are some of the most uneducated people but go off kid.

[x.god.of.hate.x]

Originally posted by OBW:

Originally posted by x.god.of.hate.x:

Yea im gonna throw my head back and laugh at you lol. The designer isn't really that buggy if you have actual experience with it. People who come into discussions throwing their weight around like this, usually are some of the most uneducated people but go off kid.

How can one throw their weight virtually? After 700 hours, people can tell if a game is buggy. Sir, you have been rude to both myself and OP. Life is easier if you make friends. :)

Are you serious rn? My guy YOU were the one out here calling people names, you used that as an argument of authority to make substantially false claims about a stable designer, yea i DO have over 700 hrs, I have the experience to make that claim about the designer do you?

YOU need to learn to be more respectful. You came out the gate swinging for no reason. You don't get to attack someone then play the victim after getting called out. Its fkn pathetic man.

[x.god.of.hate.x]

Nah you got called out.
Why even bother telling me to look at your profile when its private?

Its really not that buggy compared to what it used to be. Like I said, its far more stable than its ever been. I'm not denying that you love this game nor will i ever make that claim.
I'm simply stunned that someone like you found their way into these threads, with your only contribution of calling people names and saying its buggy.
I've never seen you before in all my hours of helping people on this game and chatting on these threads I'm sure there is plenty of room for all of us.

Hopefully you work on your behavior as a new years resolution.

[calembredaine]

in my case, found face deleting and point filling to have the most esoteric quirks. it makes designing more intuitive as you can separate faces and move them like plates, but then often found myself with inverted faces without knowing when and how they turned out that way.

extend, merge and split have easier behaviours to understand. however they are not as straightforward. you must develop a modelling mindset to master their logic and get what you want both in look and point/face structure.

rest is maybe sneaky bugs from experimental branch. stuff happens but idk if it was already there or happened since the latest patch. otherwise i managed to do alright, sometimes complex yet still functional builds.

op i suggest you to keep trying all these mechanics. you can see we have different takes on it. that gives you leads, but there is nothing more believable than your own experience, and that goes by trying.
if you still need help, make sure to post images, drawings and stuff. it is a very visual discipline where pictures sure are worth a thousand words. will not guarantee a solution but that's a lot more reliable.

[e.]

Good lord
I wake up and a twitter argument just happened

[General_Lee_Gud]

Originally posted by e.:

Good lord
I wake up and a twitter argument just happened

Don't worry about the bickering mess. The more complex of a design you make, the more things tend to stop working after a bit. I suggest you save and reload frequently or even restart the game to minimize the chance of encountering the "non-mirroring" bug. To be honest, I mostly just power through it and manually enter values which is exhausting for heavily rounded designs, but it's a surefire way to reaching an end product. I will admit however that this brute force method actually can mess with armor thickness values for some reason. I've had rounded turrets that ended up having a difference of armor thickness by a magnitude of 2 from one side to the other despite both having mirrored values.

I must ask however, when you extend are you extending only one side and having the mirroring feature extend the other side or are you manually selecting and extending both sides? I find that there are less issues when you select both.

[e.]

Originally posted by General_Guderian:

Originally posted by e.:

Good lord
I wake up and a twitter argument just happened

Don't worry about the bickering mess. The more complex of a design you make, the more things tend to stop working after a bit. I suggest you save and reload frequently or even restart the game to minimize the chance of encountering the "non-mirroring" bug. To be honest, I mostly just power through it and manually enter values which is exhausting for heavily rounded designs, but it's a surefire way to reaching an end product. I will admit however that this brute force method actually can mess with armor thickness values for some reason. I've had rounded turrets that ended up having a difference of armor thickness by a magnitude of 2 from one side to the other despite both having mirrored values.

I must ask however, when you extend are you extending only one side and having the mirroring feature extend the other side or are you manually selecting and extending both sides? I find that there are less issues when you select both.

For the question at the end, I just select one side with the mirror setting on, then extend, It does it on both sides, but you cant do anything to the other side (changing armor thickness, size of the plate, etc) unless you select both sides manually

Although the bug might come from how i usually do it, as I usually extend, lower it down to the size of the previous plate, then extend again to add what I want over it, this might be what causes the bug, but I couldn't really care less to find out

[greigy]

to fix the mirror bug after extending and or merging faces on my turrets etc, I turn on snap mode, wiggle the problem POINTS around a bit on both sides, and then I'm back with mirroring working again.

Sometimes, I have to adjust the points to be properly in alignment because they didn't snap to the right place, but I've never had any issues that couldn't be resolved with a little persistence.

following fixing the points, selecting the faces works in mirror mode for the armour without any trouble what so ever

hopefully that helps you, and I don't start another flame war