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討論區規矩與守則
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But as far as HSR is concerned I will probably just leave it be, I don't have an account beyond my steam one (in spite of my top achievement constantly telling me to link to my hoyoverse account) and I don't see any reason to try it out especially given that I can't preregister.
Elysia and all the pre-era characters officially ended their story in Chapter 30+ and ER (outside the main story chapter) is the part where it tells their individual stories, both in game and in text (you need to read them in the log for extra stories.)
It's a different world, but part of the "Honkaiverse". Just like previous Honkai games before HI3rd, eg. Honkai Gakuen has the exact herrscher and such story but in a different world, and the story changes everytime a new series is released. As you may have already noticed the story in HI3rd said something about the Imaginery Tree with "branches" and how Otto is able to "branch" a new world. All the Honkai Games are theoretically part of that tree and Honkai is some kind of disease (a type of god entity) that plagues the tree itself.
And since it's parallel world, they reuses the characters like Sakura, Himeko, Kiana, Mei and such in all the past series. Kiana was the final Herrscher in the last game as the "Herrscher of End"[static.wikia.nocookie.net] (with the look similar to HoV in HI3rd). A villian and the last boss.
For HSR, i do believe they will make their appearance again, but not sure when or how in the story. But for beginner characters, Himeko[hsr.hoyoverse.com] is already there in the character introduction and Welt is there too in the same faction. Bronya and Seele[hsr.hoyoverse.com] are there too in another faction. Another Bronya's identity, the Silver Wolf[hsr.hoyoverse.com] is shown in yet another faction. Su Shang[hsr.hoyoverse.com] is there too. So there's quite a lot of reused characters coming up as beginning characters in the game.
And ofcourse, "The Captain" is there too.
Well, to be honest, miHoYo was rivaling Asobimo on the mobile back then on "Real Anime looking 3D mobile RPG games". HI3rd here was over taken by Asobimo's Toram and Alchemia Story, especially Alchemia story with the gorgeous looking open world (again, back then) that works on potato phones and with a really really cool anime character creator to make your own dream anime characters in the game. HI3rd tried to compete by adding all kinds of weird genre and even rpg-ish open world in the game later to compete with Asobimo, but still lack the punch in overall. Then miHoYo released Genshin Impact which over take almost all Asobimo Game and monopolize the mobile game spotlight... So they do learn a lot from their rivals imo... and... the pre-mentioned "Alchemia Story" is turn based game. And it's not just normal turn based but a turn based that can co-exist in an open world mmo. Meaning you can do turn based in a party like normal mmo play. It's something not even the inventor of turn based battle (Final Fantasy) is able to pull off imo... so... as a rival of Asobimo, i don't think miHoYo is going to go "plain" even with turn based being the main genre. And like HI3rd you should be expecting them to put tons of other genres in the game as well.
btw... after HI3rd made it here on Steam, Asobimo had put Toram and Alchemia story here too... Alchemia story Steam just went live last week so you can give it a try and see how a turn based battle can exist in a mmo environment. They really out do Square-Enix on that part imo...
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2208530/Alchemia_Story/
HSR should be something similar, in both game play and battle. But looks much more gorgeous since it has new engines... you might noticed some of the background scenery came from HI3rd or Genshin as asset flip too... And it's basically an open world like Alchemia Story but instead of "world" they go for "Universe" with space travels and all that.
But i don't think it will be on Steam early, at least not with Cognosphere... since they have their contracts with EGS... so it might be EGS exclusive for some time before it will show up here on Steam.
Well, for rpg type turned base, though i won't say it's boring, but it can certainly be tiresome, especially when there's lots of encounter. For Alchemia Story, the part where you need to solo the game can be pretty hard for some, you have to grind and unlock the skills needed as well as the gear levels to be able to survive and clear some bosses in the story mode, and since Yome can't be as strong as the main character, a lot of "Strategy" is needed way before we start playing most part of the game. For example, set the Yome up as DPS and the main as a Tank or Healer actually works better than having the main DPS and let the weak Yome tank... But having a Yome that do dps is the hard part for most players since they don't know what skill/weapon can be put on the Yome to make decent damages.. etc etc... Turn based can still be fun if Strategy is involved... but then again, for a grindy game, after you decided the strategy it can still be repetitive and that may ended up boring for some i guess... But the same thing can be said for action rpg where you need to grind the same pattern over and over and over again... HI3rd is stage based with limited access to most plays, so that kinda ease the mind on the grind part imo (the game is actually "anti-grind" in design, most Chinese made games are like this due to its government's law)... plus there's that stage strategy thingy that changes weekly, so it's not hard to get tired of the game i guess.
Same thing could be said for turned based games, when they are stage based... I've been playing a turn based game (Langrisser) for years on my phone here and it's still hard to get bored due to the strategy part (and the chess-like pvp)... so in the end, SRPG (SLG/TRPG/Tactic) seemed to works well for me most on the phone, since the stages are just right for one run and not too repetitive compared to normal rpg game. Plus there's also sweep option for stages we've already cleared. These can only be implemented on games that based on stages, for games with open world and require the player to "move" to those areas "by feet" and kill monsters or pick up items for quests, i doubt they can implement such feature without killing the fun of the game itself. Even auto-move, auto-battle is frowned upon in these type of games where players complain it kills the fun. In the end, it's all about preference of each players. You and me seemed to prefer stage based game more than open world type (typical casual type players)
For some players we like stage based beat em up way more than turn based due to.. well.. a certain personality... for example... One Piece is a great manga/anime where a single person can 1 shot an army of enemies... when it came to game, we would prefer it to be beat em up style and not turn based... One Piece Pirate Warriors made a good example how this genre should be done, but One Piece Odyssey have turned it into turned base. And yeah... that anger quite a lot of fan imo, but still, there are fans that prefer these type of game play. But in the end, the change of genre that try to reach a larger fan base could very well ended up in bad reviews of disappointed fans.
For Honkai Series, they've been changing genre every single new release, so... i think the fans got used to the genre changing by now.. and HI3rd is actually a chaos mix of multiple genre in the end... so that won't make HSR any worse. lol!
Like I said, in the end, it all boils down to players type and their preferences...
There's a few types of players and can be basically divided into:
Masochist (AKA Hardcore) - These like grindy games that is totally unfair to the players. Players have to spend most of their time on grind just for petty rewards. In short it's nothing but pain to do everything. But these players loves it. Mostly Open World type games or Old School RPGs where you need to grind the monsters one by one, encounter by encounter and bits by bits... With story like weak starting hero becoming stronger as they face villains way stronger than they are... Believe it or not, this is the majority of the population. That's one reason why these type of games never went old...
Sadist - These players like to inflict pain, they like bloody games, and games that allow them to kill tons of enemies in just 1 hit... These games often are stage based with enemies way weaker than the player character, where they put tons of enemies against your single hero or hero party just for the fun of killing. Normally in these games, co-op are not that much popular, due to the more players are in the stage, the less fun it will be for the sadist because less monsters to kill... pvp on the other hand, works out pretty well among those who are skilled when they can inflict pain on others, but for weaker players, they will hate it (unless they are the masochist type). Most of these games ended up being single player based, or small party based like the instanced dungeon run. A good example for small party type will be PSO2, and single player type will be Devil May Cry series.. or well.. HI3rd here. But my favorite example is Bloodrayne, this game really satisfied the blood thirstiness of the sadist inside me.
Idler (Lazy person) - These players are often too lazy to use their brain in games, and don't want to constantly moving their finger(s) to play a game... So like their name suggested, Idle games came in just right for them, everything is automated, and all they have to do is watch and occasionally give some instructions or set the gears... Honestly speaking, not all of these are bad. But for us who are more likely wanted to move our hands to play a game, we find these boring or even meaningless... Yet, i was able to find one that last pretty long for me as i use the game as "white noise" / background noise when i am going about with my work (probably a gamer at heart, and gaming sound boost my work efficiency). The game name is "My Little Fantasy: Healing RPG"[play.google.com].
Strategist - These players don't want to spend too much time on a game and probably too smart to be tied to games. And they wanted to have full control of their time and how they play a game. These normally ended up playing offline type games like Building, Strategy or Farming Sim games like Stardew Valley is a good example. Other types like Pet games, or management games like Two Point Hospital. Or Chess-like games for online activities. My personal favorite will be the SRPG genre like Langrisser[play.google.com] most of the time, but there's still a place for builder game as i do quite like the time killing type games like Townscaper.
Puzzle Solver - The healthiest group among all players imo... none grinding related and totally casual.
HI3rd is not over (yet), just the story's final ending is coming soon. The game itself should be able to last for at least another 4~6 years to come (until the population died out). Cognosphere is still heavily investing on advertisements on this game so new blood will still keep coming for awhile, well, until they stop doing that. And like what you said so yourself, some players will prefer action stage-based rpg more than the turned based open world. So not all players are keen to move forward to the new HSR.
As for the type of gamer... I used to be extremely competitive, I saw every game as something to master and teach to others but I slowly realized that being extremely good at something is a really good way to get people to stop playing with you. First it was star wars battlefront, slowly all my friends avoided playing that with me and that grew to include all FPS/Third person shooters, Halo specifically drove them absolutely nuts. Then I moved into strategy games, turn based, real time and anything in between, multiplayer or single player, it got so bad that in R.U.S.E. on the PS3 I had to make a new account every couple of days because people flat out ran away from me as even going easy I still steamrolled everyone. Don't get me wrong, the feeling of being a walking talking boss battle for people to strive to beat is fun but I hated the feeling of bullying everyone around me way more. So eventually I quit playing games competitively and switched over to speedrunning (for games like Halo) and playing more casually in everything else and focusing on finding ways to beat games outside of the intended pathway or flat out ignoring the story or what the game wants and doing my own thing (Bethesda games work well for this). I tried to get back into competitive gaming with For Honor and war thunder but both of those began to give me that seal clubbing feeling again. I flat out quit For Honor and I mostly play War Thunder as a masochist game that I will never beat, never really enjoy and come back for more whenever I feel like taking another beating (also its the only "sniping" game out there which won't end in me getting banned for playing unlike my time in Battlefield and Halo).
Honkai Impact was my attempt to find a dungeon crawler combined with my wish to try out a gatcha game (at the time the only one I knew about was Azur Lane and technically Alchemia though I didn't actually know the name of that one). I searched for a quite a while before I found Honkai and I was very close to giving Genshin a shot as my first full dive into a gatcha game. Every other game was turn based or was an MMO of some form or fashion and given that I wanted to avoid any chance of me ruining the fun for other players I completely avoided the MMO's. Honkai was literally the last game I looked at and I nearly dismissed it as a sub version of genshin (I'm pretty sure I even asked here on steam what the difference was between Honkai and Genshin back before I first started playing too), I'm glad that I didn't choose Genshin because the stage style gameplay (dungeon crawler) and gatcha game set up was perfect for me as I could fulfill both niches at the same time. I play "casually", showing up every couple of months and then leave and repeat the process but I do try to speedrun through the challenges and I even went ahead and created my own roleplaying team, Team Vermilia (I'll list the Valks later if you want to know who is on the team), to make the game more challenging or more action packed depending on who I bring, so the competitive streak is still somewhat present only now its being used creatively rather than just for the sake of trying to be the best. I'm also finally starting to like the story which is, at least I think, why I felt something when watching the farewell trailer for Kiana as I was starting to see a little hope for me liking her but now its been soured by the trailer unfortunately. My bad for watching it
As for the team, I started that really early on, right after I got Vermilian Knight.
Team Vermila:
Leader: Vermilian Knight (My first S rank, gatcha box and new valk beyond the starters)
Support: Bronya Yamabuki (My first A rank, honestly never figured out where I got her)
Support: Rita Umbral Rose (My second A rank and second new gatcha valk)
Support: Haxxor/P90-Chan (Took over for Yamabuki)
Assistant: Raven (She was the first event valk I went for. She also has the most play time)
Member: Yae Flame Sakatama (My third S rank. Retired.)
Member: Seele Phantasom (my 5th A rank and 5th gatcha valk.)
Member: Seele Nymph (Seele gave Seele an imaginary cookie and now they are friends)
Member: Prinzessin ver Verurteilung (Died horribly.)
Member: Durandal Gloria (My third S rank gatcha. Died honorably.)
Member: Eden (Was part of Team Vermilia until I realized she was a flame chaser)
Member: Carol (Joined Team Vermilia as Eden's replacement. She has a rivalry with Raven)
Member: Griseo (was part of Team Vermilia until I realized she was a flame chaser)
The rules are pretty simple for adding and removing valks from the team, they need to be teamless, either their team died, they never really had one or they themselves died and if they die 3 times (2 if they died before joining) they leave the team until they rank up 3 times or have their spot is filled (I keep team Vermilia at my rank so that means it will be a while before they have a chance to return). Deaths are pretty rare, Vermilian only has one from her trailer/the main story and Raven has one. Prinz got stomped pretty badly in the old open world and Duran fell just before a boss did allowing Vermilian to win the match (everyone including the boss was between 10 and 50 HP). I guess now I can add Kiana to the roster seeing as she is practically dead and is teamless so thats something nice to come from the trailer.
Edit: Also, damn those flame chaser's for stealing all my members.
Due to the coding part of the game and how every actions operates and save and send data across the internet. It's not as easy as you think to turn an online game into offline, you have to strip the back bone skeleton of it and re-skin everything onto a new skeleton for it to work, and the process will take as long as building a brand new game. And having old graphic on new engine still makes the game outdated in the market in the eye of the younger generation gamers. So instead of remake a game with old graphic and ended up with tons of negative review, most game companies choose to remake an old game with new graphic... In the case of Online games, most rely on renewing contents to compete with the AAA offline game titles... when you take that perk away, they normally dimmed out and become quite boring in compare.
Honestly speaking, HI3rd is only good on the mobile side. When it comes to PC, there are way way more choices. Genshin too, is only great for mobile players, and its glory came from the large population of China playing it, and it's not as popular as it may sound in overall Global market. They put tons of money in the ads and we see it popping up everywhere so most people heard of it, but whether or not they will try the game is another question, and even when they tried it, will they like it is yet another question...
For PC "dungeon crawler", there are way better ones than HI3rd to be honest. Putting the offline ones aside, Phantasy Star Online 2 can easily out perform and out class HI3rd both in story and game play imo.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1056640/Phantasy_Star_Online_2_New_Genesis/
And this one here is the example of a "remake" of an online game. Newer engine and Newer graphic inherited from the old PSO2.
I work in the field and my wish is a complete fantasy, only a handful of dev teams have ever done something similar, to my knowledge, and they did so either by accident or by "accident" and none of them actually sold their online only games as offline ones. But I can still wish for it.
As for PSO2, besides it being an MMO which if I remember correctly is PvP focused, is that I would only play it for the character builder and it would basically end up suffering the same fate as HS2 and KP as the combat looked pretty bland when I checked it out. There is a similar game which I am completely blanking out on right now... Red Nexus? I can't remember, anyways its like the middle ground between PSO2 and Honkai which I am thinking about trying at some point. Hopefully Nexus will be fun. Maybe I'll drag some friends into PSO2 with me and make stupid looking characters to mess around with but I don't plan on doing that any time soon.
PSO2 is not pvp focused but more on co-op dungeon run. In fact, PSO2 doesn't really have pvp at all until years after launch. Also it's worth noting that PSO1 back then used to be both Offline AND Online with 2 modes. In fact since PSO1, SEGA are the among the very 1st game companies that introduced instanced team dungeon run with randomly generated dungeons. One of the very 1st game to use the Peer 2 Peer engine back then that evolutionized the online games in later date. In fact, HI3rd is almost doing an exact copy of PSO1 dungeon run system, just that HI3rd is way way shorter per run.
In the old days, most MMO do everything server sided, and the client don't really do much other than showing the final information to the users, that's why the old MMO don't need "Anti-Cheat" softwares to protect their games since everything is done server sided. But it comes with heavy burden on the server side as well as internet traffic cost, so back in the old days MMO need to go with subscription based to maintain the server cost. But since the peer 2 peer technology started, part of the processing is done locally on the player's client side, which greatly reduced the server cost and maintenance fee to run a MMO game and that's what caused the "Free to Play" genre to emerge. But it comes with a flaw, these newer games can easily be hacked simply by using a memory editor since part of the data is processed on the user's side, that's why they need a 3rd party anti-cheat client to detect and forbid the uses of memory editors and other cheat softwares and that's also why such anti-cheat professional companies get to have a piece of cake in this MMO market, as they maintain the security while the dev simply focus on making games at the lowest cost possible.
The other reason why P2P is getting more popular by date is also due to the advancement of internet. Back before PSO1 1st started, we are using dial up modems to play games on internet with only 56kbps internet speed... and thus MMO require quite a strong internet (T1) service to be able to handle massively multiplayer online, which makes it super costly and thus not many people can join this business back then and a certain game companies is able to monopolize the MMO market... and peer 2 peer, though known, still sucks real bad back then due to it uses the internet of the user instead and most don't have decent upload speed (even nowadays, upload speed is still way lower than download speed in most internet provider around the world), and that caused bad lagging and all that in the old days. But with internet getting more and more advanced, things have changed. At later date around 2002+, internet speed improves and user servers started to become a thing. Games like Neverwinter Nights and PSO1 started to show up with a hybrid of Offline and Online mode. And peer 2 peer technology finally shine through and plague the internet games as we see nowadays.
You may also find similar system being used in other famous MMO like LotR, Dungeons and Dragons Online and Mabinogi Heroes... These still uses the very 1st old school peer 2 peer system back then and heavily rely on the player's internet. If the host of the party is located far away from your location in the world, you will certainly experience lag.
To be honest. in recent "MMO" you don't really see a lot of players in the same area due to those instances design. Back in the old MMO, everyone on the same server is shown in the same place, and when it comes to pvp, that's real war.... "Master of Epic" comes to mind, the pvp in that game is really epic with up to thousands of players in the open world war field (real war with actual commanders and military ranks/commands and so on). And during boss raid it's really is an epic view of the sheer numbers of players (200~500) going against a giant boss...
Oh yeah btw... PSO2 is still within the top ranked MMO in Japan even when it's over 10 years old.
Also, like PSO1, in Japan and certain areas, some "co-op" games works locally on portable devices and we can't really call those MMO since they play it locally but still able to link up and play with friends in the same room. Monster Hunter old school series is a good example on this.... So if you are looking for dungeon crawlers, those might fit you better without the use of internet.
Judging from what you said, games like the old PSO1 and Neverwinter Nights will fit your criteria. You can play these both online and offline.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/704450/Neverwinter_Nights_Enhanced_Edition/
Back in those days, when the internet just starting to become popular, these games started to pop up and they let the players host their own servers with their own game created with the mods. It's also the start of the mod trend back then where mod become widely accepted and.. well.. popular (before it's only available to those who can hack the game).
Come to think of it, games that ended up doing the opposite of what you want actually exist. Some "dead" games with only offline mode back then have been converted to "online" mode and being maintained by fan base. "No One Lives Forever" is a good example around that time.