Planetfall and Age of Wonders

[Stormy Fairweather]

for starters, i think i like the empire mode in planetfall better. not only did it feel far more rewarding since everything you unlocked was usable, but it unlocked things for completing different kinds of content encouraging you to play maps with mods you might never have touched otherwise. out of all the faction unlocks there are only about 10 that actually unlock non-cosmetic features, and even then most are starting gear that makes no real difference. never mind greater customization options for your empire than for AoW4's faction. also liked how it listed every planet you conquered, rather than simply listing story chapters as 'done' or not. also also liked how the heroes in your pantheon would gain traits making them more useful over time in planetfall, whereas in Ao4 not only are all heroes perfectly generic when recruited, but you cant even edit them in your list.

im having an absolute blast with this game, tomes are an excellent system though i admit im not a huge fan of how they let every empire play the exact same way if you choose. in planetfall you were largely locked into your tech chain making every empire, and playthrough, feel unique. you could get tech outside your tree, but you had to go through extra effort to get it from someone who did research it. point is, you couldnt make up a holy good aligned faction then instantly pivot to shadow magic and lead a death cult (or in planetfall terms, if you spec'd laser dino's you couldnt pivot into psionic reassemblers)

honestly, planetfall really just feels more polished overall and it kinda feels like Ao4 took a step back in a few areas. less a sequel and more a parallel promotion. addons for units were fantastic for making low tier units usable past the very early game, but they also became tedious and overpowered so kinda torn on whether i like it better or not. individual factions in that game REALLY felt unique (space bunny mercs, anyone?), and i really hope to see more features of planetfall, such as npc factions, make their way into AoW4.

planetfall didnt receive the recognition or success it deserved, and i blame marketing. i love this genre, and played AoW since two, but had no idea planetfall existed for more than a year after release. and i feel the commercial failure of planetfall is making devs reluctant to use features of that game, conflating the marking failure of the game with game mechanics and features that were actually excellent.

one last idle thought... the two games are similar enough i wonder if bashing all content together COULD work. magic and myth vs tech and gear. it could be the ultimate game XD. mebbe with toggles at map creation for whether the map was sci fi or magic or both. anyway, random thought i wanted to share, the meat of my post is this game is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ amazing, but so was planetfall, and i would like to see more of the improvements and features of the latter applied to the former. and, obviously, more content. more outfits, more events, more factions, more more more... the mark of a great game is one where the best way to improve it is simply to add more of the same.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by Stormy Fairweather:

planetfall didnt receive the recognition or success it deserved, and i blame marketing. i love this genre, and played AoW since two, but had no idea planetfall existed for more than a year after release. and i feel the commercial failure of planetfall is making devs reluctant to use features of that game, conflating the marking failure of the game with game mechanics and features that were actually excellent.

I think it also has to do with the age of wonders being a setting.
And planetfall had nothing to do with the setting.
So people who wanted age of wonders didnt care and on its own it is a hidden gem.
I think they peaked at planetfall.
A good balance of uniqueness mixed with freedom to costumize units.
Age of wonders 4 biggest flaw(outside of calling it age of wonders) is the lack of uniqueness.
It is something they are trying to fix.
Reavers is a good sign as it accauly has unique gameplay.
War goals(I wish we could get this from fighting anything and not just empires), Subjegation. crow control and a focus on production and mana.

Where the other culture's play way to similier to be to care.
Ow sure there are difference.
But those difference arent noteworthy.

Still recent playthroughts shows they are focusing on making everything more unique.
Happy to see them fixing the copy pasted nature age of wonders 4 had on release.
Still wish they just made a new game but wishes dont change reality.

I think age of wonders 4 is a good game.
Just not a good age of wonders game.
Mostly because it when to far from what it used to be.
Like Dawn of war 3 or tiberian twilight.
Execpt unlike those two the change accauly sold well.

[darkholyPL]

I love Planetfall. Not only is it a great game, but it's also sci-fi which I am a big fan of... but here's the problem: many people aren't.
More people, or at least gamers, seem to be into fantasy as opposed to sci-fi and that did play a big role in why Planetfall wasn't as big of a success as it deserved to be.

[~ Fabulous ~]

well yeah I think most AoW fans think planetfall is the best design AoW game, the major reason why people have gripes with it are:

1. Its scifi and not fantasy.

2. The Ai is bad, too easy for old AoW fans and 4x veterans.

[TirAsleen]

Originally posted by ~ Fabulous ~:

well yeah I think most AoW fans think planetfall is the best design AoW game, the major reason why people have gripes with it are:

1. Its scifi and not fantasy.

2. The Ai is bad, too easy for old AoW fans and 4x veterans.

Argument 2 is a little bit odd. Isn't it better, if the A.I. can surround and isolate a single player stack with 6 A.I. stacks that can shoot from all sides with some mods added for additional dmg? Or do you just mean the A.I. on the global map?

You can cheese every game in single player, but if you are surrounded by shooters thats harder to win than you are surrounded by merely melee units in the older AoW series as you can create a chocke point to stall an overwhelming force to reduce casualities and win the combat.

in AoW1 1 leader can kill 6 stack of units without a problem, you cannot drain his actions, and he is OP by default.

In AoW2 SM A.I does not enchant its own units, while the player has maybe 4-6 enchants per unit usually T3 and T4 units. This means they hit more often, do way more dmg, for example by using dark gift and cause status effects like stuns, with something like static shield and get hit less due to stone skin.

In AoW3, you can endlessly heal your units, while the A.I. can't.

Maybe you really just mean the global A.I. - its still able to surround you with stacks of units, if you come too close to its domain with only 1 stack of units, they could be very powerful with heroes and its still not enough. I thought, thats not too bad. More an AoW of numbers than quality. But i guess the global A.I. is just not agressive enough - even though thats the case, there are PF mods to fix that.

[lalala]

Yes. I instantlly was disappointed by the pantheon. Exactly the points explained here.

[Isseus]

We can't have the galactic empire from Planetfall because that would require AoW4 to actually have races and cultures instead of skinsuits that try to hide there is only one race. And what would you unlock? There aren't that many neutral units after all and outside the six cultural units (they're mostly the same between cultures) and one building (I don't count the alternative buildings that have extra +5 of some yield) there's nothing to unlock from cultures. It all boils down to the fact that everything in AoW4 is generic and bland compared to Planetfall because everyone is identical to each other. Just look at the marketing for the upcoming DLC; they keep talking about new forms and form traits (which are available to everyone and still only biped humanoids), mounts (available to everyone) and two tomes (which are available to everyone). The only unique thing is the primal culture and even that lacks any identity with its "we can be anything" totems. So cool, you can make goblins that ride mammoths and birds that ride crocodiles... except they are the exact same as a dude on a horse with maybe a +2 elemental resist slapped on. Generic. Bland. Flavourless. Forgettable.

[Johnny 5]

Planetfall grew on me. Its so good I really hope a 2nd one comes out. However I probably prefer the fantasy setting.

[Blanch Warren]

Another one?

[~ Fabulous ~]

Originally posted by TirAsleen:

Originally posted by ~ Fabulous ~:

well yeah I think most AoW fans think planetfall is the best design AoW game, the major reason why people have gripes with it are:

1. Its scifi and not fantasy.

2. The Ai is bad, too easy for old AoW fans and 4x veterans.

Argument 2 is a little bit odd. Isn't it better, if the A.I. can surround and isolate a single player stack with 6 A.I. stacks that can shoot from all sides with some mods added for additional dmg? Or do you just mean the A.I. on the global map?

You can cheese every game in single player, but if you are surrounded by shooters thats harder to win than you are surrounded by merely melee units in the older AoW series as you can create a chocke point to stall an overwhelming force to reduce casualities and win the combat.

in AoW1 1 leader can kill 6 stack of units without a problem, you cannot drain his actions, and he is OP by default.

In AoW2 SM A.I does not enchant its own units, while the player has maybe 4-6 enchants per unit usually T3 and T4 units. This means they hit more often, do way more dmg, for example by using dark gift and cause status effects like stuns, with something like static shield and get hit less due to stone skin.

In AoW3, you can endlessly heal your units, while the A.I. can't.

Maybe you really just mean the global A.I. - its still able to surround you with stacks of units, if you come too close to its domain with only 1 stack of units, they could be very powerful with heroes and its still not enough. I thought, thats not too bad. More an AoW of numbers than quality. But i guess the global A.I. is just not agressive enough - even though thats the case, there are PF mods to fix that.

yeah I mean the global ai, they are just too...coward...I am on the offensive all the time, rarely do I feel like I have to defend myself from their attack.

[Charlando[SunsOfStmChrts]]

I prefer the mechanics of Planetfall but every time I try to go back to it I really miss the QoL improvements from AoW4 even if I believe it was streamlined too much in other areas.

[Toddasaurus Rex]

Planetfall had the best expansion, research, and economic gameplay too, much better than even civilization or other 4x titles. Cities focused on manufacturing actually produced better units, with options for reduced upkeep along with whatever other bonuses from sites or landmarks you could pile on. Pure economic or powerhouse cities helped your global campaign verymuch overall, and FOOD. The internal food trading was an absolute godsend, a couple breadbasket cities exporting food made your expansion and city growth something truly startling, new cities growing a pop a turn was awesome. Research trees and doctrines were very cool, even if the future tech rolls could result in an absurdly broken snowball. The espionage was actually useful and defensive operations were awesome. Late game felt like actual planetary scale combat.

Not to mention the maps actually wrapped around like a whole planet should, making naval and aircraft (as generally lame as aircraft were...) very useful for ambushing crossing armies and completely ransacking enemy coastal sectors.

I feel like age of wonders 4 is a step back in the vast majority of areas, except for the emergent narrative and completely customizable species, and their synergy with cultures. Its a damn shame the cultures bring so little to the table here. Maps not wrapping around like PF, I get, as its a different style game. But the removed economic and expansion functionality like Residential sectors (could be hamlets/villages), food exports, and unit stat increases from landmarks, and generally, of interesting fixed sites or locations makes each world feel relatively kind of lame. I will give credit to the whole magic resources mechanics, which are very awesome but i'd love to see it expanded on.

[Max Wax]

I'm glad to see this thread. Yesterday I finished Planetfall again (over 700 hours, my most played game ever; in AoW4 I have over 400 hours of experimenting) and I wrote a few thoughts.

Aow4 PLANETFALL in 2024 - why it remains superior to Aow4.
Played Planetfall again while waiting for AoW4 Primal Fury DLC, and:
- Planetfall's gameplay is much better overall: The biggest maps with the most (12) players on highest difficulty are so much fun!!! Playing it has a sense of challenge, and intensity, but it is managebale. It takes time to discover all the players - a sense of big planet. Some you don’t meet until much later in the game, which keeps things exciting.
Moving around the map is not as slow as in aow4. You feel you can react to things. And the "teleport" tech in Planetfall is somewhere in the mid game and it facilitates your expansion! In AoW4 it is not the case.
- In Planetfall the threat from your neighbors is real, exciting and motivational. Can't say the same about Aow4 where the game gets often stagnant without a sense of emergency.
- Overall the AI in Planetfall is very good - both on the big map and in battles! It attacks each other, often eliminates. You see AI plays to win, AI plays to be powerful. This why alliances feel more necessary and impactful. in Planetfall AI is challenging without a sense of annoying cheating and advantages on the highest difficulty. Can't say the same about Aow4 where AI plays more to survive than to win and cheats to an annoying level of ridiculousness (super fast expansion rate of their cities for instance).
- In Planetfall you have tighter empire building - 4 sectors per city by default, up to 6 with certain tech. There are nods and wonders around your starting area and they contribute to better units (usually add to their resistance). This way you focus on whats within your 4 sectors reach to make expansion strategic and effective. Plus you can remove provinces or switch their specialization to your needs - you are not tight by special improvements synergies (AoW4 new mechanics). And You don’t have to look for 4 Golden Wonders situated ridiculously far away from you to finalize a victory. Besides, districts have more locations to go into (special nods), which are fun and useful to explore and acquire.
- The cities in Planetfall are limited in the number of districts but this makes you expand and establish more cities. They're like puzzles - easy to connect with your existing territory.
- In Planetfall there is no race enhancing, but units. Units have slots for modifications and you can change them as a type or individually. This way you have specialized armies, with different units of the same type. This mechanics is so much more fun compared to AoW4 race and unit types enhancements. Besides, in Planetfall when you conquer another race's city you get access to their tech tree which is awesome! You get more options to customize units! FUN!
- Planetfall has an excellent size of battle maps that lets you try different fighting strategies. For instance You are able to cut the distance to your enemy in the first round if you have units build for this (this magical one step green hex, that leaves your 3AP cost abilities intact). I don't see this flexibility of fighting strategies in AoW4.
- Victory conditions are brilliant in Planetfall and they dictate the pace of your game. A mini victory of plus +1 population early on for instance is useful and strategic. It's fun and relevant. The boring path to victory conditions in AoW4 is one of its current major weaknesses.
- Infestations - in Planetfall those which bred on water, stay on water; the same with the land ones. Such a small thing, but makes dealing with them much less annoying. In AoW4 infestations are focused on attacking predominantly you and often arrive to your domain from you don't even know where. And The AI in AoW4 does not remove the infestation nests!?
- Additionally the Campaign mode in Planetfall where you get to chance to play as every faction. It serves as a tutorial also. It makes you fall in love with every new faction. "Wow, I love this one". Wow the next one is even better" - because they have different strategies and weaknesses implying different, fun playstyles!
- I'm visual and I like tech trees
- Water units have more sense and use in Planetfall, than in AoW4
- I like the archaeological sites mechanics a lot. Bringing different races to it or different hero's specialization gives you different results. After many games I still find new outcomes from the archaeological sites.

Ironically I also didn't know Planetfall exists until I started seeing marketing for AoW4. I could not afford AoW4 initially, so I bought Planetfall to check out this frenchise. Fell in love with it! I like some aspects of AoW4 but it still lacks in game play and coherence of its mechanics.

[Cindeerella]

Indeed. AoW4 is balancing disaster, gameplay goal is as bland as in decade old AoW3 (rush your t3-t4 units). Heroes are absolute powerhouse with 90% of them having identical build of Warfare-Killing Momentum- Single action weapon. Enchantments are pretty uninspiring and dull compared to mods from PF, those make strong units even stronger, most of enchantments are just a joke, scalling damage of non-basic attacks is extremely problematic.

There is just so little difference between my different playthroughs in AoW4 it becomes stale and boring, heck in PF Shakarn Promethean, Shakarn Heritor and Shakarn Celestian have so much more different playstyles than any three different AoW4 builds will have.

AoW4 has no depth, it lacks uniqueness, it has terrible balance, few only good things of it just overshadowed by its bad things. I was very disappointed by AoW4 at launch, it was disaster and embarrassment, game slpwly gets better, but in few days we will be only one DLC away from further game development stop, and I doubt AoW4 will reach at least 50% of PF potential.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

I am suprised the clown army hasnt come out yet.
Back when it was first released you got send endless clown rewards and mocked for pointed out it was inferior to previous games in the serries.

[Salinga]

I have now started a PF game again for the first time in a while and for me PF is clearly the better game. Yes, I can also have fun with AoW 4, but I don't think it's nearly as good as PF.