Useless Items...

[Kid Sandriff]

I love the item crafting for the most part but I hope an update will fix some of the useless item choices.

There is no reason to choose a crossbow, at all. A bow is better for your money in every way currently, can this be fixed? Give the crossbow other upgrade choices or allow it piercing damage etc?

That's my main complaint that really needs a look at. Aside from that the primary weapon choices could also use a little revamp to give a more unique feel between the weapon options, as it stands, there's not much there. The lance, pike and great weapon have a unique differential, but even then, now the lance is ALWAYS better than the great weapon when crafting, simply because it allows a mount and is generally similar in every other way. Does this make sense?

[Blanch Warren]

I mean, its higher damage means it can multiply more, if it was multiplied. Though I'm not sure what does that for a hero.

[mk11]

Crossbows have the advantage that they do full damage if you move. A crossbow will do more base damage than a bow unless the hero moves not at all. Not sure how damage multipliers work. A bow has 10 base damage so 10% adds 1 per shot. But if the bow is elemental that damage is split so does the 10% get rounded down or...?

The great weapon does seem just worse than the lance. May be the great weapon could do more damage but just have charge strike and the lance have heavy charge strike? Or even not give great weapon charge strike at all. Or bonuses such as whirlwind strike should be available to great weapons but not lances?

[goliu]

Agree devs should do something with xbows and 2h weapons.
Lances are the supperior 2h charge weapon cuz they don't disable mount slot. Or i'm missing something after 50h of gameplay, lol.

There is default t2 xbow with armor piercing keyword. But I'm pretty sure armor piercing is currently bugged. During my test the keyword did nothing on xbow. And i couldn't add it to custom weapon so didn't test it further.

Also with current wording(piercing is written as "Ignore up to X defense") it makes the weapon better against lower-armored units not heavy. Which is counterintuitive imo and thus should be changed to "ignore 60-80% of targets defense" and not ignoring targets armor by flat amount.

It's rly not very complicated to add some flavor to different weapons.
Xbows for example can shot in melee and have armor piercing. Or become semi ranged weapon without disabling shield.
2h swords can have cleave attack, axes ignore armor by flat X, maces ignore armor by % etc or they can have low chance of apply different status effect like bleed etc.

[TyborPL]

Crossbow can be used to its full potential for flanking and can benefit more from Killing Momentum.

[goliu]

Originally posted by TyborPL:

Crossbow can be used to its full potential for flanking and can benefit more from Killing Momentum.

On paper true, but only early in the game having xbow is better for maneuvering warfare. And you don't have killing momentum early in the game. May be in some frost/slow builds where you kite everything... idk, haven't tried kiting builds yet, because i have some doubts in its viability on higher difficulties.

After couple of tomes with +dmg per hit effects bow outscales xbow. And if you need full movement to flank opponent it will put your hero exposed. Only for a marginal 25% increase in damage. When you can just do 3 attacks in opponents face standing in back line without any extra conditions.

[Kid Sandriff]

The range of the bow, coupled with how you can add a range bonus to it in addition to level upgrades means you are almost always getting 3 hits with it and rarely need to flank for the extra damage you'd get with the crossbow.

There are some good crossbows you can find because of the ignore armor buffs, but building a crossbow over a bow in the item crafting table hinders the damage you can output for the majority of the fight. And yes, it does work better with killing momentum, except that it kills less in general.

In addition, the upgrade to damage isn't so significant that it would deter other even more useful factors, like having 3 chances to add effects, lower defense/resistance, and even, though not usually needed with an archer, knock back three life steal chances(MORE if you have splash damage from a tome).

Early game a crossbow isn't bad, fun even, great for mowing down fleeing enemies.
But your best crafting options are mid-late game, and then the bow outclasses it too much.
If it could get some unique skill bonus, like a piercing damage or splash damage option for light aoe(maybe hitting an enemy behind for a maybe 2 craft points), I think it would find more use as a mid-late game contender, and be more fun.

Generally, I really want it to be more unique/fun. I ran a campaign where my goal was to use only a crossbow on my leader...but I was playing on hardmode and abandoned it for the far more beneficial effects from the bow in almost every area.

[mk11]

There are some things I'm not following here.

The +dmg per hit effects from tomes I thought came as skills you needed to select for the hero (not from the enchantment) so they come as an opportunity cost in giving up some other skill.

@Kid Sandriff notes, early game a crossbow has advantages but later game the bow is better. So for a reclaimer that is going to start making items early it has value.

Seems the bow/crossbow decision already has choices (not that adding more options for crossbow wouldn't be amiss). The greatsword/lance choice though the lance is straight up better.

[Kid Sandriff]

Originally posted by mk11:

There are some things I'm not following here.

The +dmg per hit effects from tomes I thought came as skills you needed to select for the hero (not from the enchantment) so they come as an opportunity cost in giving up some other skill.

@Kid Sandriff notes, early game a crossbow has advantages but later game the bow is better. So for a reclaimer that is going to start making items early it has value.

Seems the bow/crossbow decision already has choices (not that adding more options for crossbow wouldn't be amiss). The greatsword/lance choice though the lance is straight up better.

Yeah it still ends up being a level up skill you would select for the most part when leveling the hero up(meteor strikes I think, also a late game skill).

I think, there are people that really like their heroes and fluffing them up with certain equipment(myself), and it would be nice to crossbow lovers to have more unique options for the late game. It doesn't feel like it would be too hard to implement, but I could be wrong, coding is tricky.

As far as the lance/greatsword thing goes, man, there really is no scenario off the top of my head were a greatsword is better except for some of the rare ones you find in-game, crafting-wise, the greatsword needs more love.

[Imperium]

There is a top mod that adds like 100 new items, its awesome, but as others said there are benefits to crossbow, moving and shooting, killing momentum letting you dish out full damage rather than a tiny amount a bow would allow. ♥♥♥♥♥♥ items can be crashed too. I would like for them to add items like the mod did.

[Anthreris]

Don't crossbows deal damage to two more hexes beyond your initial target though? With bows only dealing damage to a single hex.

Also it seems like one can craft better loot than the player can find does, anyone else feel like there should be better items to find? Like a unique legendary category? This is based on my experience in a 200+ rounds regenerating infestation match.

[Imperium]

Originally posted by Gman:

Don't crossbows deal damage to two more hexes beyond your initial target though? With bows only dealing damage to a single hex.

Also it seems like one can craft better loot than the player can find does, anyone else feel like there should be better items to find? Like a unique legendary category?

100% We need legendary items and maybe another tier of wonder that would house those. Crafting as is, kinda meh.

[sinobas]

I'm not a fan of one shot ranged weapons in general. It seems you get 300% less shots in exchange for a 33% increase in damage.

I think Crossbows should get something like "armor piercing".

[Terrkas]

Originally posted by goliu:

Originally posted by TyborPL:

Crossbow can be used to its full potential for flanking and can benefit more from Killing Momentum.

On paper true, but only early in the game having xbow is better for maneuvering warfare. And you don't have killing momentum early in the game. May be in some frost/slow builds where you kite everything... idk, haven't tried kiting builds yet, because i have some doubts in its viability on higher difficulties.

After couple of tomes with +dmg per hit effects bow outscales xbow. And if you need full movement to flank opponent it will put your hero exposed. Only for a marginal 25% increase in damage. When you can just do 3 attacks in opponents face standing in back line without any extra conditions.

About stuff like +X enchantments, jordi leaked, that Single hit attacks get a buff for those. Usually double dmg bonus and higher % chance for effects.

[goliu]

Originally posted by Terrkas:

Originally posted by goliu:

On paper true, but only early in the game having xbow is better for maneuvering warfare. And you don't have killing momentum early in the game. May be in some frost/slow builds where you kite everything... idk, haven't tried kiting builds yet, because i have some doubts in its viability on higher difficulties.

After couple of tomes with +dmg per hit effects bow outscales xbow. And if you need full movement to flank opponent it will put your hero exposed. Only for a marginal 25% increase in damage. When you can just do 3 attacks in opponents face standing in back line without any extra conditions.

About stuff like +X enchantments, jordi leaked, that Single hit attacks get a buff for those. Usually double dmg bonus and higher % chance for effects.

That's an awesome change! Any info about ETA?

[Terrkas]

No, but it will be in the first 3 months.