What's up with Javelins?

[MattStriker]

Haven't found one in the wild so far, but I just recruited a new ranger and wanted to make him something nice in the Forge. So I looked at the Javelin and...uh, is it just me or is it just plain worse than the other dual weapon sets?

It's got the same low ranged damage as the Net, but lacks the immobilize special. The sword/crossbow combos have higher damage and don't lock the Mount slot, the sword/pistol set has low base damage but pierces armor. And the sword/kunai just does ludicrous base damage compared to all the other sets.

The Javelin...has nothing. Low base damage, no specials.

I could see this fitting somehow if you could use a shield with it (which is how javelins have been used in warfare all throughout human history), but it also disables the Secondary slot.

What am I missing here?

[MattStriker]

I did some more testing in the Forge and apparently all the numbers are a lie? Like...none of this matches up between the tooltip and the forge output?

(Yes, I know the always-active damage portion adds +2, even with that the math isn't mathing.)

Javelin

Kunai

Crossbow

[IlluminaZero]

Javelin doing less damage than a thrown dagger is a real crime...

Does Javelin at least have some other advantage like greater range or something?

In a broad sense Javelins really deserve more love in fiction. Spears that could be feasibly thrown were not only historically dominant in many periods of history but were frequently the go-to weapon for chief deities and mythical heroes.

[MattStriker]

I'm currently building some test items but turns take a fair while at the point of the game I'm at so I can't be entirely sure but it looks like what this is is an error in the tooltip.

[Pantagruel]

The balance between weapon types is still pretty bad for skirmisher weapons. Javelins are randomly bad.

[MattStriker]

Originally posted by Pantagruel:

The balance between weapon types is still pretty bad for skirmisher weapons. Javelins are randomly bad.

It seems like they might not be. I forged on and compared it to an sword/kunai set at the same item tier. Apparently the stats are the same but the tooltip in the forge is wrong.

[The Big Brzezinski]

UI quirk, looks like. Look at the numbers on the right.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3418198808
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3418198850
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3418198896

The daggers and javelin both do 14 and 22 base damage on melee and ranged hits respectively. The sword and crossbow does 2 less without disabling the mount slot.

[Partholonian]

The crossbow doing slightly less damage but allowing mounting seems fine to me, lances have a similar tradeoff compared to other charge weapons. So it's really just a tooltip issue that makes javelins look worse than they actually perform? Should this be moved to the bug report forum?

[WarrGrinn]

Iirc are there not also rate of fire difference as well (cool down) in skirmish weapons and I believe the thrown Javelin always hits.

[Typha]

@jordi?

[Ash]

TBF, the weapon/mount balance seems a bit wonky in game.

I've had much better luck with warriors/spellblades/deathknights that can use charge weapons. Massively OP.

Alot of the weapons/mount restrictions are kinda rough-balanced in this game. As far as I can tell balancing any of the weapons would require a massive game overhaul.

[Zoggy]

I did some quick testing in game - javelins have no cool down on ranged attacks and are essentially the same as sword and daggers.
( it might be an old record in the ui somewhere as mine glitched as well briefly but in combat they work the same and give the same damage)

(also another bug -for oathsworn champions with sword and throwing daggers- it also gives you a free mount *which you cant use with the weapon type as disables mount slot)