Power numbers

[Råb!d]

When I have 1200 vs 750 (2 dragons) power and get crushed it makes me think that a level IV dragon is worth a lot more. Those 'power' level numbers are worthless.

Facing a stack of 2 or 3 dragons (or more) doesn't seem to fit into the fantasy genre. No author writes about teams of dragons leveling everything. The book would be "the dragons came, killed everything, the end".

I think the ai should be reworked so those unfun stacks don't happen, especially in the early game.

[The Grand Mugwump]

Your 1200 army was overall stronger, but dragons are good at fighting large crowds. Seems like a classic counter to me. The best way to deal with dragons is to lean heavily on ranged units that are spread out. They are large creatures, which makes them much easier to hit from far away. Or use your own big mythic unit to deal with them.

[The Grand Mugwump]

I also learned to hate spider mounts when I had a race which started with them in one game. They were causing me to constantly lose auto combats that I had a clear power advantage in because the AI would send all of my units (ranged included) right up to the enemy melee to shoot webs at them. I never used spider mounts ever again. That was another lesson in how what abilities units have, how well they mesh together and work against the enemy, and how smart/dumb the AI is in using them can have more impact than raw power.

[Pantagruel]

Power numbers are generally gibberish, and dragons somewhat underperform relative to how hard they are to get, but in general the purpose of high tier units is to allow high power in a small number of units (either because you're at an 18 stack, or because power leveling a hero), equal cost of lower tier units generally beats a higher tier unit.

[Theofratus]

Same thing happens when you get the time of teleportation and your medics phase towards the enemy, wind up on the front lines ahead of your tanks and get focused.

The AI does what is "most effective" at that time, without regards to the next turn. That's why you can technically be at an army roughly twice your power using actual tactics, assuming you have the action economy.

[IlluminaZero]

AOW4 actually simulates the battles rather than just lazily and sloppily doing a guestimate based on theoretic power numbers. A counter army can vastly overperform the battle projection.

You can watch the battle; observe how your army lost, and either take that as a lesson or attempt to manually resolve it.

[Aurumworks]

My stack of two legendary phantasm warriors and four legendary wisps may mark up 1220 power, but the fact is, they are boosted up to their beaks with order and astral enchantments, which make them beat almost any other stack the enemy can throw at me.

Power is an indicator of army strength, not an absolute measure.

[TirAsleen]

Originally posted by Råb!d:

When I have 1200 vs 750 (2 dragons) power and get crushed it makes me think that a level IV dragon is worth a lot more. Those 'power' level numbers are worthless.

Facing a stack of 2 or 3 dragons (or more) doesn't seem to fit into the fantasy genre. No author writes about teams of dragons leveling everything. The book would be "the dragons came, killed everything, the end".

I think the ai should be reworked so those unfun stacks don't happen, especially in the early game.

mmmmmh still have sweet memories of moving stacks of red dragons around with 5 unit enchantments only razing cities on a big map in multiplayer for 12 hours...back in SM.

And those were 3 stacks /8 Dragons per stack so 24 T4 dragons per combat.

before turn 70, since the game was much faster in producing high Tiers than AoW3 and AoW4

Honestly i do not see your problem. The numbers are irrelevant and should be taken out of the game as they are missguiding thats all we can agree on.

Dragons in AoW4 are sometimes easier to defeat than legendary rank 1 T1 unit with couple of enchantments and race transformations. Mythic + large target isn't exactly something that works in their favor.

[Fendelphi]

Power numbers is a rough estimate. It is nice to have it for that, but only that.
If you are new to the game and dont know the various units, seeing an army of 2000 power value, while you are around 1000 gives you a clear indication that you should probably not win this battle without heavy magical support and tactical finesse.

We could remove the numbers(it would not matter to the vets much), but I still think it is nice to see at a glance the projected power balance between 2 armies.

[✧Starshadow Melody✧]

Originally posted by Råb!d:

No author writes about teams of dragons leveling everything. The book would be "the dragons came, killed everything, the end".

Yeah, no dice there. Authors do write about teams of dragons fighting eachother, just look at Dragonlance, mormon ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it may be.

[Daedric Arbiter]

Army power is the rough estimation of overall strength. Though what makes an army powerful isn't the obvious number and instead how they perform in practice and how you build them.

[Partholonian]

Originally posted by Råb!d:

The book would be "the dragons came, killed everything, the end".

Then why is it taking George RR Martin so long to write it?

Seriously though, as others have stated, power ratings are a rough estimate, which is why the ambition for defeating enemies with higher power levels isn't as insane as it looks. And it obviously can't take magic support into account at all, since it doesn't know what spells will be cast.

But I am surprised to see several comments to the effect of "my units are enchanted/transformed so they are better than their power level" -- does the rating really not even take enchantments and transformations into account in calculating power level? What else does it leave out? Unit experience and hero level? Hero items? (If it's calculated from stats it should include most of this automatically.)

I'm pretty sure it at least attempts to account for injuries because I have used map nukes and seen army power go down even when nothing died.

[darkholyPL]

Originally posted by Råb!d:

Those 'power' level numbers are worthless.

You just answered your own rant.
Yes they are.
And this is not a new thing to AoW in general. In Planetfall the game severely undervalued dedicated water units (boats and the like). They were very strong there, and I had the autobattle lose fights there were deemed 'very easy' based on the power rating. Absolutely decimated.
I learned to respect water units there very quickly.

[Yannir]

Yeah, those Power numbers are sometimes worthless. 2 units of the same tier can have the exact same Power but one of them counters the other, and since the AR actually resolves the fights by just running the moves without animations, the one with the advantage comes out on top 10 times out of 10 even when the power rating says it should go 50/50. Unless there are shenanigans involved.

[balmung]

The power numbers lie. As IlluminaZero described, auto-combat is simulated in this game and not guessed or dice rolled. When AI takes control over your armies, it is usually trying to brute-force its way to victory and forgo all the shenanigans and tactics you, as a player, would do. 2 Dragons might not give a lot of points but they can down your whole army(usually in a tight formation with AI) to 50-30% in one turn. Better play it manually.

[.Master Jiren, The Strongest]

imagine if you will an army of tier 5 super duper knights. you have a power level of 5 million but you have only melee attacks. your opponent is a single flying bird with ranged attack and a power level of 1.

those knights, by themselves, literally cannot win.

so the power levels only address the stats of the units, not how they perform against each other. another example is having strong units like golems or something but your opponents are all heavy into lightning damage so you end up taking significantly more damage.

Theres also the classic Light Seeker match up, maybe they only have a power level of 500 and your team might have a power level of 3000. but light seekers dominate your units and make them their own. So your power level doesn't matter at all when its about to switch sides.

Power level is just that, a level of power. it doesn't communicate tactics, thats your job.

Also, Tiamat had an army of dragons. it's not like its unheard of. But yes. a single dragon wiping out peasants is the more common story.