Dragon and ES Signature skills...

[IlluminaZero]

Is it just me or are Dragon and ES signature skills WAY better than Champion and WK? I finally just started experimenting with ES and Dragon Rulers and I completely misunderstood how they play because I basically just assumed the signature skills would not be that significant.

[Pantagruel]

Champion/WK signature skills are about buffing your army, Dragon/ES are about buffing your leader.

[IlluminaZero]

Yes but there is something a bit uninspired about...

"+1 defense. This stacks"
+1 Resistance. This stacks"
+10 HP. This stacks"

I suppose I'm partly shocked at just how radically the signature skills change how a Dragon Ruler might play. And doubly so since I am now understanding what people are talking about when they mention solo creeping with their Dragon Ruler.

[Bob]

Yeah, it's intended. Dragon Lords and Eldritch Sovereigns can't use as many items as the others so they compensate for the power increase the others get through powerful items by getting powerful signature skills.

[Fendelphi]

A Champion can make a unit act twice in a turn, as well as give various other army boosting benefits. This can be very strong when used right.

A Wizard King has a lot of extra casting potential and can cast combat spells twice in a turn, no matter what kind of culture you are playing as.

Both can boost their army quite a lot through signature skills(extra health, damage and defenses).
Both also have access to all classes(so far).

Meanwhile both Dragon Lord and Eldritch Sovereign can only pick some of the classes(and no Ranger at all).
In addition, Dragon Lord and Eldritch Sovereign does not have access to all item slots.

To compensate, they have special abilities and a unique progression in terms of signature skills.

There are a lot of pros and cons to the various rulers.

[TirAsleen]

Originally posted by IlluminaZero:

Yes but there is something a bit uninspired about...

"+1 defense. This stacks"
+1 Resistance. This stacks"
+10 HP. This stacks"

I suppose I'm partly shocked at just how radically the signature skills change how a Dragon Ruler might play. And doubly so since I am now understanding what people are talking about when they mention solo creeping with their Dragon Ruler.

The main issue i have with this approach is, that the heroes also work that way as the Champion and WK.

But i feel, all rulers should be as unique as the DLC rulers.

[CrUsHeR]

Some of the regular signature skills are crazy good, like ignore 6 status resistance and +1 range for your army from Astral. Or +6 flanking damage and the skirmisher skills plus camoflage from Shadow. +30% crit from Chaos, etc.

The +30 HP from Nature, not so much because that's just more health you also needed to heal back which doesn't do much otherwise.

+1 armor / resist has varying usefulness due to these stats having diminishing returns (i.e. each extra point gives less benefit than the previous).



Dragon and ES are all about themselves, except for some C-rank skills (like Nature dragon or Holy ES).

The Dragon works best if you build him as solo warrior with the various Charge skills and the Materium Aspect. And the ES can also solo everything with an Astral / Shadow build, though the dragon is arguably better because auto-resolve plays him very efficiently.

And while this is great, it also means they give no bonuses at all to their army. So any units they command are just as "naked" as an army without a hero.

[IlluminaZero]

I suspect I am partly just being wowed by how much of a massive power spike my Dragon is enjoying with every signature skill. I noticed it with my ES as well but it didn't seem as dramatic as with my present Dragon...

I may need to give standard Champions / WK some props. Although really I do suspect that there are two implications from a meta/"optimal" perspective:

1) If hero troop bonuses dramatically change the stack's function (exp: Barbarian with crit modifiers, stacking flanking with skirmishers, etc) then one could feasibly treat the Ruler (IE Dragon/ES) stack as an auxillary / tank stack. You're going to have 3 stacks mid-end game for any serious fight anyways. So putting higher emphasis on say... Support/Battle mages in the Dragon's/Barbarian stack for example.

2) Dragon and ES just seem superior in having non-leader heroes in a stack... Although I do like WK as well in this function. Particularly if they are using +Strengthened/Regeneration per combat cast.

Adding to #2... What is the benefit of a standard Champion in a Ruler stack? Seems that due to their design they inherently are optimal generals?

[Zoggy]

Dont forget wizard kings and champions also benefit from transformations -heroes are still very strong units even outside of signature affinity- also ES and dragons do have some supportive abilities depending on how you build them.

( was thinking order aspect dragon/life breath or pure breath -paladin dragon is a niche but a good one armoured claw + defender build)

( Also don't underestimate the extra skill points saved you can always respect later if need a general )

Are a few reason to have at least one champion hero in the stack with a ruler.

Champions particularly with elitist ambition are good-! multiple action/cool down resets can be powerful cascading!. Also if going for a critical hit build - champion of war is another 20% crit chance. ( works with a chaos dragon. ) Also ES like a strong font line - two melee champions work well!

For champions in ruler stacks- 1 for ascension skills are also very good generally!
if you recruit from Pantheon, can combo with ruler- A dragon heart champion and a dragon ruler for example! ( also Summoner and ES (+ ritualist astral bond.))

[Pantagruel]

Yeah, it's necessary for ES and DL to have some compensation for being down item slots (-2 for ES, -4 for DL) and transformations.