Champion vs Wizard King?

[Vvv]

Am I missing something or is the wizard king much more powerful than the champion?

The extra mana per level seems like a huge advantage...

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Vvv:

Champion vs Wizard King?
Am I missing something or is the wizard king much more powerful than the champion?

The extra mana per level seems like a huge advantage...

That is if you overlook the Champion's economic power and the experience boost. The extra mana itself is not what makes the Wizard King great, but rather the casting points. In the long run one is better equipped for defense, the other better for offense. The champion is better for beginners due to the passive multipliers.

[Tuco]

I played with both and they seem to be more or less on equal footing to me.

It isn't particularly easy to force a direct comparison with just a few maps played, because every time I swapped character I was playing a different scenario, but at no point I ever felt like one of the two was severely lacking compared to the other.

[djheat]

They seemed pretty balanced as long as you're into their playstyle. If you're all about casting spells, champion's definitely going to seem underwhelming over the wizard king though

[Rianith]

Both good, but if you have a seriously non Astral, non-magic army,
then a Wizard King is a big help cos you struggle for casting points.
If you have gone heavily into magic, do not underestimate the champ bonuses.
Better stability at home leads to more useful bonuses than mana,
especially if you're swimming in it arguably?

[Majere]

In my experience, Wizard Kings really shine in the late game. Once you get access to the seriously powerful battle spells their advantages in casting points etc really start to show, and there are some nasty combos that work best if you have access to Overchannel, like using Sleep of Oblivion to temporarily kill a dangerous unit then immediately using the 'corpse' as the target for another spell. With Weaver you can get two turns where you cast twice, and that can be devastating.

Champions can get better armies and cities faster, which helps in the early game and can prevent a Wizard King ever getting going, but once you get to the point of 18-aside battles the Wizard King gets a major edge.

[Vvv]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Originally posted by Vvv:

Champion vs Wizard King?
Am I missing something or is the wizard king much more powerful than the champion?

The extra mana per level seems like a huge advantage...

That is if you overlook the Champion's economic power and the experience boost. The extra mana itself is not what makes the Wizard King great, but rather the casting points. In the long run one is better equipped for defense, the other better for offense. The champion is better for beginners due to the passive multipliers.

Yes, that's what i had in mind...I mean being able to cast 2-3 more spells per battle is heavy lifting especially late game...

But yeah, i guess champion has easier time with cities and vassals and such...

[MEATSHED]

Yeah despite the 10% extra mana income wizard kings really don't produce that much more mana due to the champs stability bonus and easier time getting free city vassals.

[Vvv]

Originally posted by Majere:

In my experience, Wizard Kings really shine in the late game. Once you get access to the seriously powerful battle spells their advantages in casting points etc really start to show, and there are some nasty combos that work best if you have access to Overchannel, like using Sleep of Oblivion to temporarily kill a dangerous unit then immediately using the 'corpse' as the target for another spell. With Weaver you can get two turns where you cast twice, and that can be devastating.

Champions can get better armies and cities faster, which helps in the early game and can prevent a Wizard King ever getting going, but once you get to the point of 18-aside battles the Wizard King gets a major edge.

Seems like champion would be great for early game rushes in MP.

[Puggly the Grey]

Champions benefit from any race transformations you get, while WKs don’t, I think…

If that’s correct it can give champions a decent boost in 1vs1 fights.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Puggly the Grey:

Champions benefit from any race transformations you get, while WKs don’t, I think…

If that’s correct it can give champions a decent boost in 1vs1 fights. :doge:

Do not worry. It is incorrect.

[ayrtep]

Economy vs tactical combat.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1669000/discussions/0/5294588689497647123/?tscn=1684055111

[Vvv]

Originally posted by Puggly the Grey:

Champions benefit from any race transformations you get, while WKs don’t, I think…

If that’s correct it can give champions a decent boost in 1vs1 fights. :doge:

You sure about that? I had a a mystic wizard king that was into lighting and astral magic stuff and I am pretty sure he got all the visuals from race transformations...

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by ayrtep:

Economy vs tactical combat.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1669000/discussions/0/5294588689497647123/?tscn=1684055111

A tad simplified, but close enough.
Truth is, champions can catch up with the casting points, if played properly and have the advantage with superior units. Wizard King is really better in the long run when it comes to combat. But until it reaches that point it shines only with Overchannel at the beginning.

[The Tear Collector]

Originally posted by Vvv:

Originally posted by Puggly the Grey:

Champions benefit from any race transformations you get, while WKs don’t, I think…

If that’s correct it can give champions a decent boost in 1vs1 fights. :doge:

You sure about that? I had a a mystic wizard king that was into lighting and astral magic stuff and I am pretty sure he got all the visuals from race transformations...

when casting a race transformation spell with a WK Leader, you can choose whether or not the spell is supposed to apply to the leader as well or not.

You can't do that with the Champion. It always applies to him

[Balekai]

The true reason why Wizard King is truly superior to Champion is the dress code. They get batter clothes dummies! Also you get different races than your own! Like Halfings with their Elven slave master! You can;t deny the fun of that! *cough* Anyways...

But really the more I play the more I think Champion does win out with it's better trade income, relations and other things. Combat casting points become a non issue after a while especially if you have affinities that give you gimmick casting point generation during combat, or if you abuse something like Mystic Spellbreaker unit's add 10 casting points 2 turn cooldown ability.

Where the Wizard King shines is pouring out strategic map spells and summoning unit's on the fly. Or just getting started early game with a large mana reservoir from turn 5ish when a champ would be struggling. A Champion isn't going to be able to churn out stacks of summons every turn like candy especially high quality stacks. A Wizard King with their 25ish-100 Extra Casting points will. Overcast is handy for alpha strikes with magic, multi tasking or setting up summon buffers on turn 2 to to soak some damage (like summoning vines).

...Also the clothes.

My rule of thumb is any character that's going to be focused on diplomacy, being nice or doesn't require heaving casting or mana upkeep becomes a champion. Any character that doesn't care about playing nice, won't benefit from more relations or gold income becomes a Wizard King. Did I mention the Wizard King wardrobe I don't think I did.