Turns out that this whole Umbral Abyss thing is no fun.

[Frogshackle]

I already find surface spawns of monsters to be a bit of a pain in the ass since the AI typically does NOTHING about them (allowing them to evolve into outrageous nonsense) and they primarily target the human player for "reasons" (I've watched infestations target me from the opposite side of the map and pass peacefully by every AI on the way) and so now the Umbral Abyss is just more of that but on steroids. I waste 90% of my time dealing with random, spawning BS rather than my actual enemies and that kind of whack-a-mole is absolutely devoid of fun.

So, sure, I can toggle off the abyss layer (and I will, going forward) but now I regret bothering with a DLC that is mostly centered on a feature that I strongly dislike. Oh well...

[BoogieMan]

Ursprungligen skrivet av DasaKamov:

Ursprungligen skrivet av BoogieMan:

Infestations and the like they should target the nearest city.

Then you get the issue of the player just camping for 50-turns, waiting for infestations to weaken/wipe out their opponents, and mopping up the leftovers with minimal thought in the end.

Who wants to do nothing for 50 turns?

And it's not like on most settings they are that hard for the AI to deal with.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Ursprungligen skrivet av DasaKamov:

Ursprungligen skrivet av BoogieMan:

Infestations and the like they should target the nearest city.

Then you get the issue of the player just camping for 50-turns, waiting for infestations to weaken/wipe out their opponents, and mopping up the leftovers with minimal thought in the end.

Sounds like a good strategy to me.
If they cannot handle those infestations they deserve to die.

[⎝Wyrd Deofol⎠]

It's my only hated dlc and a misstep for Triumph.

[TirAsleen]

Ursprungligen skrivet av ⎝Apostate⎠:

It's my only hated dlc and a misstep for Triumph.

just because of Umbrall Abyss? it can be turned off.

[Nunda]

There's a new setting, subdued umbral abyss, in the tiger beta. No dwellings, less infestations, and less gates into it (which means smaller overall). I personally would have wanted just less gates, but there's an option.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Nunda:

There's a new setting, subdued umbral abyss, in the tiger beta. No dwellings, less infestations, and less gates into it (which means smaller overall). I personally would have wanted just less gates, but there's an option.

Aw.
For a second i thought we finaly got to conquer/colonize the abyss.
Right now its worthless.

[Lord Bubba]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Nunda:

There's a new setting, subdued umbral abyss, in the tiger beta. No dwellings, less infestations, and less gates into it (which means smaller overall). I personally would have wanted just less gates, but there's an option.

Either way, I think the introduction of the Umbral was a bad idea. After several play through s, the Umbral always attacks the Human player. Never the AI.

[The Former]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Malaficus Shaikan:

Yeah pretty much.
The more you play this game the more you learn it is everything vs player.
Not just ai vs player.
It is called fake difficulty.
So forget about using muarders or umbral against your enemies.
The ai isnt bothered by them.

I literally sat back and watched the AI conquer eachother in my last game. One of them had to come running to me begging for safety because his main rival was whooping his ass.

[The Former]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Lord Bubba:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Nunda:

There's a new setting, subdued umbral abyss, in the tiger beta. No dwellings, less infestations, and less gates into it (which means smaller overall). I personally would have wanted just less gates, but there's an option.

Either way, I think the introduction of the Umbral was a bad idea. After several play through s, the Umbral always attacks the Human player. Never the AI.

I'm curious, by the way, how does everyone know this without vision of the AI's cities? Is it just an educated guess?

[isaacaderogba1]

Ursprungligen skrivet av The Former:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Lord Bubba:

Either way, I think the introduction of the Umbral was a bad idea. After several play through s, the Umbral always attacks the Human player. Never the AI.

I'm curious, by the way, how does everyone know this without vision of the AI's cities? Is it just an educated guess?

I've seen AI get defeated by the factions that live in the Umbral Abyss. It actually happened surprisingly early in one of my recent games. Saw the AI getting sieged at their throne city, tried to send my units to support the AI, but they got defeated by the Umbral army before I could arrive.

[Cellar_Cat]

I've seen them and infestations attack the AI. I actually had to stop using high world threat along with regenerating infestations, because I'd see the max difficulty AI cities being sieged down by something like a roving furnace lol. But then I only play on the largest maps, so maybe there's a limit to how far away they can preference players?

The Umbral things also feel quite out of whack. At the time I have to go deal with them to stop them spreading into my cities, they're stronger on *normal* world threat than the max setting AI empires who are, I thought, supposed to be the primary thing I compete with. And those guys never really catch up either, because I advance along with them, so it feels like the real danger in the world is just the umbral things early on...

[Nunda]

AI Empires actually really benefit from minor/major advantage (percentage bonus to damage taken and damage reduction) given pre-game to fight against infestations. Apparently brutal difficulty gives minor advantage to them by default so they survive against high world threat.

[Max Wax]

After many hours of playing with Umbral it is a fun addition to the game BUT: I think it's too beneficial now to play Evil Alignment and befriending Umbral - mainly because they shower you with many Magic Materials when establishing the pact. It's too good to skip! Now the game desperately needs another dwelling, especially something for good character alignment, for a balance and to keep "non-Umbral playstyles" strong.

[TirAsleen]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Max Wax:

After many hours of playing with Umbral it is a fun addition to the game BUT: I think it's too beneficial now to play Evil Alignment and befriending Umbral - mainly because they shower you with many Magic Materials when establishing the pact. It's too good to skip! Now the game desperately needs another dwelling, especially something for good character alignment, for a balance and to keep "non-Umbral playstyles" strong.

Could bring back Syrons as good dwelling in the shadowumbral realm.

[Max Wax]

Ursprungligen skrivet av TirAsleen:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Max Wax:

After many hours of playing with Umbral it is a fun addition to the game BUT: I think it's too beneficial now to play Evil Alignment and befriending Umbral - mainly because they shower you with many Magic Materials when establishing the pact. It's too good to skip! Now the game desperately needs another dwelling, especially something for good character alignment, for a balance and to keep "non-Umbral playstyles" strong.

Could bring back Syrons as good dwelling in the shadowumbral realm.

I haven't played Aow 3 but seems like Syrons are present in AoW4 as a playable form option.