Really sad that the Summoning mystic subculture doesn't count golems as magic origin

[MayContainSalt]

basically just title, been playing a mystic dwarf culture since launch with heavy focus in materium enchanting and summoning magic rather than damaging spells and was excited to see that they would add a summoning sub culture to mystic in the eldritch dlc, unfortunately they at some point also made it so golems dont gain any benefits from it. I can still play it no problem with the Attunement subculture but it still bums me out you know? Was just a neat way to take the dwarfs as a race of stone mages instead of the standard industrial route. I feel like i should specify that i am really enjoying the DLC otherwise this is just a small bump in the road that maybe a mod will fix.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Sounds like an oversight on the dev's part.
At least i hope.

[Cindeerella]

Well units that you build in cities aren’t getting magic origin tag obviously, that’s game design. MO is only what you summon with spells - so your fellow copper golems, but don’t sure if they keep MO tag after evolution, but I guess yes?

[MayContainSalt]

Originally posted by Bratty Doe:

Well units that you build in cities aren’t getting magic origin tag obviously, that’s game design. MO is only what you summon with spells - so your fellow copper golems, but don’t sure if they keep MO tag after evolution, but I guess yes?

Not even the copper golems have the MO tag when you summon them before they evolve. given, golems are still very strong and this doesn't make or break them. It's just a sticking point theme wise with my faction.

[Cindeerella]

Originally posted by MayContainSalt:

Not even the copper golems have the MO tag when you summon them before they evolve. given, golems are still very strong and this doesn't make or break them. It's just a sticking point theme wise with my faction.

That’s pretty weird, it shouldn’t work like this, I’m sure such golems were MO in previous patch. Like even animals we summon are getting it, even cultural units from Tome of Horde summon (But I’m not 100% sure on this one actually).

[The Big Brzezinski]

Use elementals instead. They come in all sorts of flavors, from shield dudes to skirmishers to battle mages to flying shock troops. You can eventually take the creator tome and given them all Undying.

Golems, if I recall correctly, used to be elementals before being split off into their own category. They have their own buffs now.

[Astasia]

Seems like an oversight and should maybe be reported. Anything summoned/created by a spell that uses mana as upkeep is magic origin, that's why they use mana as upkeep. The game should be consistent about this. Golems changing from elementals to constructs should not have changed the magic origin tag. Most undead are magic origin, and those are just flesh golems. Golems are clearly powered and held together by magic.

[Balekai]

Golem lore and mechanically wise are supposed to be Elemental/Artificial oriented, not Astral Magical Origin oriented (Materium vs. Astral thus polar opposites).

It's the same reason why Zealots or Irregulars aren't counted as Magical Origin either, since it's less summoning them form another dimension or other worlds in the Astral Sea, and more teleporting someone from a place more locally like your Throne City.

With Golems the "summoning" is really "constructing" and that latter language should have been used imo. Your summoning in maybe the pieces, but are magically and artificially fusing them together on the spot making something out of parts. So not really of magical origin and more "tinkerer origin." :p

The real sad part is that after hours of play I know Mystic Summoner is going to get nerfed into the ground lol. Very fun right now though. :)

[Midas]

Originally posted by MayContainSalt:

Originally posted by Bratty Doe:

Well units that you build in cities aren’t getting magic origin tag obviously, that’s game design. MO is only what you summon with spells - so your fellow copper golems, but don’t sure if they keep MO tag after evolution, but I guess yes?

Not even the copper golems have the MO tag when you summon them before they evolve. given, golems are still very strong and this doesn't make or break them. It's just a sticking point theme wise with my faction.

Things don't necessarily get the MO tag just because they're summoned. Summoned versions of normal units don't get it either, like Zealots or units summoned from Summon Irregulars.

[This is Aru]

Constructs aren't the same as Magic Origin things. They have a bunch of stuff specific to those tomes, etc.

Magic Origin would make more sense as Astral Origin at least for a bunch of them, but then there is Necromancy and such which muddles it all up. Lightbringer is probably the strangest one, at least based on looks.

[Astasia]

Originally posted by Balekai:

magically and artificially fusing them together on the spot making something out of parts.

So you are saying they are made with magic.

The MO tag is unrelated to Astral, this is not a materium vs astral thing. Magic units from all schools of magic use the magic origin tag, not just "summoned" units, raised skeletons are also magic origin, vines that sprout from the ground are magic origin, materium's big bad ultimate t5 titan unit is magic origin.

I think this really comes down to somebody looking at golems, deciding to add new mechanics to them, rolling the elemental and magic origin stuff they had into the new construct tag, and then forgetting what magic origin implies and does. Having a tag like construct shouldn't exclude a unit from benefiting from magic origin stuff. There are bonuses/mechanics related to things like plants, animals and undead as well, with units in those categories that are also magic origin and get the potential benefits of both.