Leadership Clash is Gone via New Patch

[Beytran70]

Just in case you missed it.

[Black Hammer]

Aww, I liked it. Though I do feel it should have kicked in after the second hero in a stack, or not applied to the ruler or something.

[Raatotiainen]

Gone completely or changed to that what it was in beta (not applied to ruler)? If it's gone completely, it would be a shame.

[Balekai]

Yeah in beta I started up just yesterday it was gone for your ruler as stack leader. In the beta they also added it to AI among some other balance changes to it.

[Black Hammer]

I suppose the new hero cap also solved the stacking issue somewhat, so it may have been redundant.

[Beytran70]

Originally posted by Raatotiainen:

Gone completely or changed to that what it was in beta (not applied to ruler)? If it's gone completely, it would be a shame.

The patch says removed, so I assume completely removed. This comes alongside the addition of hero recruitment cooldown timers for the AI as well.

[Raatotiainen]

Then it's dumb, it was implemented with a good reason. And the beta changes sounded good.

[Beytran70]

Originally posted by Raatotiainen:

Then it's dumb, it was implemented with a good reason. And the beta changes sounded good.

I guess the devs decided the cap system and hero recruitment timer solved the issue they set out to fix anyways, and I think it's fine.

[isaacaderogba1]

Yeah, gone completely but I'll still play with one hero per stack. Trivialising the game with hero stacks was never appealing to me.

I just wish the AI was also programmed to avoid hero stacks, because thats also no fun. Removing the clash penalty probably means the devs won't prioritise this now.

[Beytran70]

Originally posted by isaacaderogba1:

Yeah, gone completely but I'll still play with one hero per stack. Trivialising the game with hero stacks was never appealing to me.

I just wish the AI was also programmed to avoid hero stacks, because thats also no fun. Removing the clash penalty probably means the devs won't prioritise this now.

They may still work on it, but now the hero recruitment timer will help discourage it in the late game where I often encounter hero stacks more because I wipe out a bunch of AI armies and instead of recruiting troops they'd recruit a bunch of heroes for defense. Now they can't.

[Raatotiainen]

Yeah, changes were good, them not applying to AI was not so good. Hero stacks were too op.

[isaacaderogba1]

Originally posted by Beytran70:

Originally posted by isaacaderogba1:

Yeah, gone completely but I'll still play with one hero per stack. Trivialising the game with hero stacks was never appealing to me.

I just wish the AI was also programmed to avoid hero stacks, because thats also no fun. Removing the clash penalty probably means the devs won't prioritise this now.

They may still work on it, but now the hero recruitment timer will help discourage it in the late game where I often encounter hero stacks more because I wipe out a bunch of AI armies and instead of recruiting troops they'd recruit a bunch of heroes for defense. Now they can't.

Yes, though that depends on the difficulty level. Playing on Brutal implements a 1 turn cooldown which is pretty insignificant.

The AI previously had a limit on heroes because it was tied to cities, but now that limit is basically lifted. The early game is still reasonable, but AI hero spam ramps up as the game advances. I hope they revisit this again soon. Fighting expendable heroes every other turn really diminishes their importance

[Beytran70]

Originally posted by isaacaderogba1:

Originally posted by Beytran70:

They may still work on it, but now the hero recruitment timer will help discourage it in the late game where I often encounter hero stacks more because I wipe out a bunch of AI armies and instead of recruiting troops they'd recruit a bunch of heroes for defense. Now they can't.

Yes, though that depends on the difficulty level. Playing on Brutal implements a 1 turn cooldown which is pretty insignificant.

The AI previously had a limit on heroes because it was tied to cities, but now that limit is basically lifted. The early game is still reasonable, but AI hero spam ramps up as the game advances. I hope they revisit this again soon. Fighting expendable heroes every other turn really diminishes their importance

They probably will. The anti clash voices seemed to be in the minority anyways, so the fact the devs acted on it at all indicates to me they were of mixed opinions about it to begin with. Chances are they'll continue monitoring the situation and taking in feedback and seeing what other ways they can accomplish things if people are still complaining. At worst we'll have to wait until the next DLC and big patch for a major change again, imo.

[isaacaderogba1]

Originally posted by Beytran70:

Originally posted by isaacaderogba1:

Yes, though that depends on the difficulty level. Playing on Brutal implements a 1 turn cooldown which is pretty insignificant.

The AI previously had a limit on heroes because it was tied to cities, but now that limit is basically lifted. The early game is still reasonable, but AI hero spam ramps up as the game advances. I hope they revisit this again soon. Fighting expendable heroes every other turn really diminishes their importance

They probably will. The anti clash voices seemed to be in the minority anyways, so the fact the devs acted on it at all indicates to me they were of mixed opinions about it to begin with. Chances are they'll continue monitoring the situation and taking in feedback and seeing what other ways they can accomplish things if people are still complaining. At worst we'll have to wait until the next DLC and big patch for a major change again, imo.

Maybe, though, I'd probably just note that a more accurate at worst scenario is that the devs don't revisit these changes because there's not a loud enough minority that continues to complain about them. People might be upset with the removal of leadership clash, but not upset enough to organize themselves into vocal minorities.

I'm honestly not even *that* upset about the change (since I tend to self-impose rules around some of the game's imbalances). I still really enjoy the game, and I'll continue to play it whatever they choose to do. But I'd just really like to see the devs continue to emphasize varied unit stacks in this game and balance the game with that in mind.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by isaacaderogba1:

I just wish the AI was also programmed to avoid hero stacks, because thats also no fun. Removing the clash penalty probably means the devs won't prioritise this now.

This is my fear, too.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by isaacaderogba1:

The AI previously had a limit on heroes because it was tied to cities, but now that limit is basically lifted. The early game is still reasonable, but AI hero spam ramps up as the game advances. I hope they revisit this again soon. Fighting expendable heroes every other turn really diminishes their importance

Precisely this. The prior hero stack nerf was overall good in the basic goal; it was the particular solution(s) that was lousy. Now, we likely have a worse system where AI will just have gazillion heroes mid-game onward. Changes like this is what happens when balancing is focused around PvP or "rush"-style maps that are well over before you get to 100 turns.