Anyone actually able to justify line dragon breath?

[Eldrin]

I can easelly make a case for cone and comet but line just seem flat out inferior. What it can hit is so low next to the other two and the 2 damage boost it gests is pretty much nothing. Anyone had success with it where you felt like oh line is way better? By success i do not mean that 1 fight out of 100 where you had that PERFECT line set up to not also hit your own guys.

Personally i feel like a way to make the line worth something is by not only it having the damage increase but it should also get a major boost to inflicting its status effect. Then it would feel more like a concentrated breath weapon.

[Cindeerella]

The person describing Combo probably forgot that Weaver no longer leaves extra action point. In past I suppose you could Breath-> Killing momentum-> Weave -> Breath. It doesn’t work like this anymore unfortunately

That said. I’m currently playing Crocodile Primal culture with Dragon Lord and using line breath. It’s very solid and deals over 50 damage to multiple units even without lvl 12 (turn 15 currently, already cleared Golden Wonder with it).

[Fendelphi]

I like Breath Cone because it is 1 AP(can be used after moving a lot) and can be upgraded to cover a very wide area, which makes it easy to hit 3-5 targets in large battles. It is also fairly easy to position in a way so that you avoid friendly fire(or purposely friendly fire and hitting enemies at the same time)

Line has the same mobility advantage(1 AP cost) and can be easier to "snipe" far away targets with, and it deals the most damage, but overall lacks the same coverage as the Cone breath, so you generally have to flank on a side to hit more than 2 targets.

Comet has no real mobility, meaning it is very defensive by comparison. It can easily hit groups of enemies once in position and upgraded with the bigger AoE, but the same is true with the other breath options. Overall, I feel this is the weakest option, unless you play very defensively.

[Midas]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Comet has no real mobility, meaning it is very defensive by comparison. It can easily hit groups of enemies once in position and upgraded with the bigger AoE, but the same is true with the other breath options. Overall, I feel this is the weakest option, unless you play very defensively.

Where Comet comes into play, in my opinion, is with a battlemage dragon. Breath attacks count as a magic attack and get all the passive bonuses from all the many battle mage buffs, at which point it basically becomes one more evocation to use.

[Xarathos]

Originally posted by Midas:

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Comet has no real mobility, meaning it is very defensive by comparison. It can easily hit groups of enemies once in position and upgraded with the bigger AoE, but the same is true with the other breath options. Overall, I feel this is the weakest option, unless you play very defensively.

Where Comet comes into play, in my opinion, is with a battlemage dragon. Breath attacks count as a magic attack and get all the passive bonuses from all the many battle mage buffs, at which point it basically becomes one more evocation to use.

personally comet is the one i dont use the most, since i cannot move and fire, cone i use it if i go either order or nature major since friendly fire is a buff instead of damaging units, if i go for the t5 metarium and get the skill ancient one that is 30 % more dmg for both melee and magic, you can also have some points to get some skill from magic tree and get the 10% more magic dmg, line has the highest damage out of the 3

last game i ended up with dragon lord in 15 def, 12 res, and something close to 24 spirit 18 lightning maybe more since those are the numbers i remember and i think were before the buff from the 3 red magic materials nor it was ascended so no dragonheart

also tail attack was something like 49

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Midas:

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Comet has no real mobility, meaning it is very defensive by comparison. It can easily hit groups of enemies once in position and upgraded with the bigger AoE, but the same is true with the other breath options. Overall, I feel this is the weakest option, unless you play very defensively.

Where Comet comes into play, in my opinion, is with a battlemage dragon. Breath attacks count as a magic attack and get all the passive bonuses from all the many battle mage buffs, at which point it basically becomes one more evocation to use.

Same is true for the other breath types. Channel to get a +50% magic damage for your next magic attack, then move up and blink into position, then breath. This creates a lot of opportunities for damaging several units at once(as well as applying debuffs etc.).

The issue is the 3 AP cost, which is why it is a more defensive playstyle, as you generally do not get to move around much. You basically have to stay still if you want to use it, just like most of the other battlemage spells, which also limits/removes your ability to use the close combat potential of the dragon.
You cant use the Blink(Astral level-up teleport skill that reserves 1 AP) in combination with Comet Breath, and every so often, you have to "sacrifice" a turn to move into a good position for dealing damage to several enemy units, or to avoid too much friendly fire.

It can still be powerful, but I just find it restrictive when compared to the cone breath or line breath, as you basically have to sit still constantly to get the most out of it.

[Cindeerella]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Same is true for the other breath types. Channel to get a +50% magic damage for your next magic attack, then move up and blink into position, then breath. This creates a lot of opportunities for damaging several units at once(as well as applying debuffs etc.).

The issue is the 3 AP cost, which is why it is a more defensive playstyle, as you generally do not get to move around much. You basically have to stay still if you want to use it, just like most of the other battlemage spells, which also limits/removes your ability to use the close combat potential of the dragon.
You cant use the Blink(Astral level-up teleport skill that reserves 1 AP) in combination with Comet Breath, and every so often, you have to "sacrifice" a turn to move into a good position for dealing damage to several enemy units, or to avoid too much friendly fire.

It can still be powerful, but I just find it restrictive when compared to the cone breath or line breath, as you basically have to sit still constantly to get the most out of it.

But dragon has no solid melee potential compared to normal heroes, that's why warfare dragon isn't a thing in late game, crafted claws aren't really fixing this. With sprint you pretty much can do step and with 7 range you can hit anything with comet, of course it's not as versatile as cone or line, it's just your artillery.

It's actually interesting what kind of "defensive" playstyle you're talking about, waiting for an enemy to take their turn and move to the middle of battlefield so you can attack them with full resouces? Is running to the middle of battlefield yourself at turn one and be open to all enemy attacks considered an "aggresive" playstyle? You can run with your dragon to the middle of battlefield aswell and now comet can reach everything.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Bratty Doe:

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Same is true for the other breath types. Channel to get a +50% magic damage for your next magic attack, then move up and blink into position, then breath. This creates a lot of opportunities for damaging several units at once(as well as applying debuffs etc.).

The issue is the 3 AP cost, which is why it is a more defensive playstyle, as you generally do not get to move around much. You basically have to stay still if you want to use it, just like most of the other battlemage spells, which also limits/removes your ability to use the close combat potential of the dragon.
You cant use the Blink(Astral level-up teleport skill that reserves 1 AP) in combination with Comet Breath, and every so often, you have to "sacrifice" a turn to move into a good position for dealing damage to several enemy units, or to avoid too much friendly fire.

It can still be powerful, but I just find it restrictive when compared to the cone breath or line breath, as you basically have to sit still constantly to get the most out of it.

But dragon has no solid melee potential compared to normal heroes, that's why warfare dragon isn't a thing in late game, crafted claws aren't really fixing this. With sprint you pretty much can do step and with 7 range you can hit anything with comet, of course it's not as versatile as cone or line, it's just your artillery.

It's actually interesting what kind of "defensive" playstyle you're talking about, waiting for an enemy to take their turn and move to the middle of battlefield so you can attack them with full resouces? Is running to the middle of battlefield yourself at turn one and be open to all enemy attacks considered an "aggresive" playstyle? You can run with your dragon to the middle of battlefield aswell and now comet can reach everything.

I disagree on melee aspect.
Early on, you are far stronger in melee than other heroes, because you essentially have a tier 4 weapon from the start.
Later on, you can enchant "your claws" to provide additional benefits, like weaken or stun, and it has higher base damage than a regular "repeated melee attack" at tier 4.
An early Tail Swipe is better than tier 1 and tier 2 lances/great weapons in terms of "move and attack once".
With additional retaliations and Strike First you can limit the effectiveness of enemy melee attackers that tries to stop your other abilities from working(you cant cast several of your battlemage abilities if engaged), especially if you are enchanted with Frost or Stun(that is pretty late game though).
You can lock down groups of ranged units/casters, forcing them to move(less AP to attack, and take an retaliation attack), and constantly move to good positions for your Line/Cone Breath when the enemy groups up.

Dragon Health also gives you a total of +60 health, while Dragon Scales 1 and 2 increases your Defense and Resistance by 2, as well as giving you an elemental resistance boost. They can become very durable.
And the Tail Swipe is a pretty good "1 AP attack"(removes Defensive stance and Retaliations) that can be upgraded to stun and displace units.

Killing Momentum with 1 AP breath and 1 AP Tail Swipe options can also do wonders.


Sprint gives you about 2 tiles worth of movement, but it still cost AP to actually move. So if you move out on turn 1 to get into position, you still cant use your Comet breath attack that turn.
You can take Tome of Teleportation to get Quick Phase, but then you have already limited yourself a bit in the research available to you, as it is a tier 3 tome(and it is an expert skill).
To get the Comet Breath to range 6(center aim) it requires Distant Evocation(adept battlemage).

And in big battles, moving out to the middle of the board does not cover "everything" for the rest of the battle. You can hope and anticipate that enough targets move within range of your AoE, but there is no guarantee. And if no good targets comes your way, then you have to move again.
Important targets like casters and archers often hang further back, push a flank or might break up into smaller formations as the battle goes on.
If your Dragon lord wants to move to avoid focus fire(from both melee and range), you suddenly cant do the majority of your damage any more if they require 3 AP to activate.

Again, it is not that it is bad to go that route, but you have far fewer options in combat. Every skill point spent to make the Comet Breath "work better", could have been spent to make you deal more damage or become more tanky(or buff the army more).

The defensive playstyle should be pretty self-explanatory. You set up a defensive formation near your deployment area, typically on one flank, and maybe use summons more to act as a speedbump or to tie up enemy ranged units as they get close.
Meanwhile, artillery/casters and archers(typcially Zephyr Archers) deal damage from this defensive position when the enemy moves within range. Your Dragon Lord basically becomes a piece of that setup. To maximize damage, you have to spend all 3 AP on attacking.
If you are going to be using a mix of Evoker abilities and Comet Breath, you can barely move except for getting into position on turn 1, meaning you have to make sure that your enemies comes to you and that you have an army that synergizes with that kind of setup.

[Midas]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Originally posted by Midas:

Where Comet comes into play, in my opinion, is with a battlemage dragon. Breath attacks count as a magic attack and get all the passive bonuses from all the many battle mage buffs, at which point it basically becomes one more evocation to use.

Same is true for the other breath types. Channel to get a +50% magic damage for your next magic attack, then move up and blink into position, then breath. This creates a lot of opportunities for damaging several units at once(as well as applying debuffs etc.).

The issue is the 3 AP cost, which is why it is a more defensive playstyle, as you generally do not get to move around much. You basically have to stay still if you want to use it, just like most of the other battlemage spells, which also limits/removes your ability to use the close combat potential of the dragon.
You cant use the Blink(Astral level-up teleport skill that reserves 1 AP) in combination with Comet Breath, and every so often, you have to "sacrifice" a turn to move into a good position for dealing damage to several enemy units, or to avoid too much friendly fire.

It can still be powerful, but I just find it restrictive when compared to the cone breath or line breath, as you basically have to sit still constantly to get the most out of it.

Which is the same as most of the long range AoE battle mage evocations. It fits in with the rest of them just fine.

[Telos]

A sort of compromise is to pick up Frost Invocation from the magic tree, which is a lot like cone breath: same size-3 cone, chance to inflict whatever your aspect and dragonclaw say, chance to freeze (which may or may not be what your dragon-breath also does), but lower damage, and no increased AoE or effects from the final transformation. This doesn't compare to a full-fledged breath attack (little in this game does!), but often gives a comet-dragon something useful to do on turns when it needs to reposition but isn't willing/able to go all the way into melee range. When I was playing a shadow dragon meant to condemn and freeze lots of things, it was quite helpful to have another a condemning freezing AoE attack that could be done while repositioning.

[Pantagruel]

The big problem with the line AoE is that the game forces you to align breath weapons on the hex grid so you often can't actually hit a target unless you use very particular positioning.