what is the point of defense mode if literally everything breaks it??

[Ponypony]

I cant see the point of having this skill in the game, literally half the units in the games attacks just instantly break it and also disable retaliation. I am liking the game this just seems like it should be a [10% of units] can break defense mode rather than, seemingly half the units in the game

[darkholyPL]

Well mostly just shock units and heroes with 1hit melee weapons can break it. Some cc as well, but well that's cc for you.
Even still that one hit you take get the bonus form defending, so it's not all a loss. When at a distance from the enemy it's really good, but once you're in the thick of it, you should be looking around, and if the enemy has plenty of shock units, then expect your defense mode to be broken.
Positioning is key.

[Midas]

It's not even remotely close to half.

Use pikemen more. They block the charge advantage. Anything that slows the attacker's movement like the slow effect or moving through water will block the charge too.

[MrLuckless]

Originally posted by Midas:

It's not even remotely close to half.

Use pikemen more. They block the charge advantage. Anything that slows the attacker's movement like the slow effect or moving through water will block the charge too.

Pikeman block a normal charge, heavy charge counters the pikeman....making pikeman redundant. It's the only bit of the design I don't get, because there is no "heavy pikewall" to counter the heavy charge, so charge wins out eventually.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by MrLuckless:

Originally posted by Midas:

It's not even remotely close to half.

Use pikemen more. They block the charge advantage. Anything that slows the attacker's movement like the slow effect or moving through water will block the charge too.

Pikeman block a normal charge, heavy charge counters the pikeman....making pikeman redundant. It's the only bit of the design I don't get, because there is no "heavy pikewall" to counter the heavy charge, so charge wins out eventually.

Not redundant, since it still gets to attack first and the Defense stance still affects that 1 hit(but is cancelled afterwards).

If you have a polearm unit with a shield unit behind it(grants extra defense to nearby units while in defensive stance) you greatly diminish the impact of enemy charges.

[Midas]

Originally posted by MrLuckless:

Originally posted by Midas:

It's not even remotely close to half.

Use pikemen more. They block the charge advantage. Anything that slows the attacker's movement like the slow effect or moving through water will block the charge too.

Pikeman block a normal charge, heavy charge counters the pikeman....making pikeman redundant. It's the only bit of the design I don't get, because there is no "heavy pikewall" to counter the heavy charge, so charge wins out eventually.

And the number of things with heavy charge is even smaller than the number of things that break charge to begin with.

[Azunai]

It's not half the units. It's shock units and that's It. One out of 9 unit classes (10 if we count scouts). And the only melee unit that is limited to a single attack per turn.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by Azunai:

It's not half the units. It's shock units and that's It. One out of 9 unit classes (10 if we count scouts). And the only melee unit that is limited to a single attack per turn.

This.

Methinks the OP ran into an enemy faction that uses Shock units and became upset.

[Midas]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

Originally posted by Azunai:

It's not half the units. It's shock units and that's It. One out of 9 unit classes (10 if we count scouts). And the only melee unit that is limited to a single attack per turn.

This.

Methinks the OP ran into an enemy faction that uses Shock units and became upset.

That's what it sounds like. Industrious going up against Dark and suddenly realizing Anvil Guard and Bastions *loathe* Dark Warriors and Dark Knights.

[MrLuckless]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Originally posted by MrLuckless:

Pikeman block a normal charge, heavy charge counters the pikeman....making pikeman redundant. It's the only bit of the design I don't get, because there is no "heavy pikewall" to counter the heavy charge, so charge wins out eventually.

Not redundant, since it still gets to attack first and the Defense stance still affects that 1 hit(but is cancelled afterwards).

If you have a polearm unit with a shield unit behind it(grants extra defense to nearby units while in defensive stance) you greatly diminish the impact of enemy charges.

Units with Heavy Charge cancel both the defense mode and the retaliation attacks, in essence shutting down pike units from doing the one thing that makes them valuable as a front line. You keep pikes around less for charge defense and more for bonus against cavalry and large units, which is a majority of shock and mythic units. The retaliation attacks are more beneficial against other, non-charge melee units.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by MrLuckless:

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Not redundant, since it still gets to attack first and the Defense stance still affects that 1 hit(but is cancelled afterwards).

If you have a polearm unit with a shield unit behind it(grants extra defense to nearby units while in defensive stance) you greatly diminish the impact of enemy charges.

Units with Heavy Charge cancel both the defense mode and the retaliation attacks, in essence shutting down pike units from doing the one thing that makes them valuable as a front line. You keep pikes around less for charge defense and more for bonus against cavalry and large units, which is a majority of shock and mythic units. The retaliation attacks are more beneficial against other, non-charge melee units.

Heavy Charge does not stop the polearm unit from striking first. The Heavy charge denies multiple retaliations from Polearms and removes the Defensive Stance, opening them up to other melee units.

As you said, polearm units are very efficient vs Large and cav-types, but also pretty much everything else due to the extra retaliation(from ranking up or built-in) and Strike First. They trade very well with all units.
That is why Heavy Charges are a thing, so that there is a decent way to reduce polearms impact in melee fights. But all Heavy Charges(except for heroes) are from tier 3 units or above.

[sandman25dcsss]

Yes, it is unusual, that we should put shield units in front of pikemen when dealing with cavalry to minimize received damage during enemy turn and maximize damage during our next turn.