Why do cannons cost Warspoils as well???

[Shooty Manz]

This is probably my biggest gripe yet with Reaver faction.

I get that the thing always hits and has decent range, but meh. My main hero can down most things with his magelock.

I wanted the dreadnaught class from AoW3. My friends and I used to love this class a lot but they butchered it in AoW4. Not only is industrial faction flat out missing its core thing (guns and cannons), they've now locked it behind paid DLC for reavers which you can only ever play one way: all out war.

This whole requiring war spoils to gain anything just turns me off the entire faction. No starting whispering stone and locking your heavy hitting tier 3 behind more war spoils just seems silly.

Iunno, this entire AoW4 game just feels off. They've lost the actual "feel" of the game. Its just all over the place with no direction. I get that they wanted to open up build creativity with the tome system, but its somehow made it worse.

Not to mention the building for your city is just hella confusing.

Guns and cannons should have just been a tome that anyone can pick. Not a stupid race that requires constant war to keep up war spoils.

Feelsbadman. :\

[TheDeadlyShoe]

if you're that fussed about cannons, just take the tome of the dreadnought and build ironclads

[Black Hammer]

Yeah, the war spoils mechanic is kind of goofy. It's either winmore or a reward for doing things the wrong way.

- You can spend it on diplomacy, but the faction rewards you for not doing diplomacy in the first place.
- You get it from wars against free cities, which is like 150 for a battle and a half per free city. Big whoop, when you usually don't want to conquer those anyway.
- Otherwise you get it from battles against other factions, which is usually lategame and if you're winning the battles against another major faction, you're winning the game as it is, you don't need to help to bribe an extra vassal or build a cannon at that point.
- And if you DO need an extra unit or two to keep your aggressive push going, you need it on the front line, as a summon, not back in your homeland.

[Kit Fulvas]

how about making it a passive income from Conqured Free Cities/Civs youve forcfully vasselized?

[Reno Story]

Honestly, I'm also kinda disappointed that, instead of getting a faction type that is focused on technology and mid-gunpowder era combat ala the Renaissance period, we instead get a faction of pirates.

While I don't have the DLC, the way it is described is curious, because wouldn't it make more sense for the barbarians to have that "War or War" play style?

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Shooty Manz:

locking your heavy hitting tier 3 behind more war spoils just seems silly.

Should be kept in mind that they do have another tier 3 unit that doesn't require warspoils, that being the Dragoon. They are infact the only culture with two tier 3 units.

[Ananym]

I mean, it's an extra unit - other cultures don't have two t3s. It's a bonus. It doesn't cost gold to produce.

[~ Fabulous ~]

100 war spoil is cheap tbh

[Midas]

Originally posted by Reno Story:

Honestly, I'm also kinda disappointed that, instead of getting a faction type that is focused on technology and mid-gunpowder era combat ala the Renaissance period, we instead get a faction of pirates.

While I don't have the DLC, the way it is described is curious, because wouldn't it make more sense for the barbarians to have that "War or War" play style?

They're more edgy conquistadors than pirates.

[Shooty Manz]

Originally posted by Black Hammer:

Yeah, the war spoils mechanic is kind of goofy. It's either winmore or a reward for doing things the wrong way.

- You can spend it on diplomacy, but the faction rewards you for not doing diplomacy in the first place.
- You get it from wars against free cities, which is like 150 for a battle and a half per free city. Big whoop, when you usually don't want to conquer those anyway.
- Otherwise you get it from battles against other factions, which is usually lategame and if you're winning the battles against another major faction, you're winning the game as it is, you don't need to help to bribe an extra vassal or build a cannon at that point.
- And if you DO need an extra unit or two to keep your aggressive push going, you need it on the front line, as a summon, not back in your homeland.

^ This.

This is what I was so confused about playing Reaver. Its just like... If i want my vassal to be any use you basically need a whispering stone. Because the intimidate mechanic doesn't work terribly well. By the time I get decent rep with them I may have either flattened the town or just played another culture that could have won their allegiance much sooner.

Its just messed up that you're pretty much pressured to play evil only for Reavers as picking the "good" options basically gimps your entire culture mechanic.

Also not a huge fan of the "capture unit" mechanic. Half the time its stuff I don't need or want and it costs my precious war spoils anyway.

It just seems this entire culture was poorly thought out and not really play tested.

Just gimmeh my old dreadnaught class back k thnx.

[President Jyrgunkarrd]

sounds like a skill issue

i've had zero problems generating war spoils. there's almost always at least 1 free city that decides to take it real personal you exist and automatically declares war. go bully them; if you want to play city state diplo, spend the spoils to sway a neutral state. if not, spend the spoils on cannons or capturing units

all of the firearms and mechanical units are so, so, SO much more satisfying to play with than the Dreadnought's equivalent units. Muskets felt anaemic, and the reload mechanic was awkward. Magelock rifles just SLAM units and it is awesome.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Shooty Manz:

Also not a huge fan of the "capture unit" mechanic. Half the time its stuff I don't need or want and it costs my precious war spoils anyway.

Assuming that you don't auto resolve all your battles, you can literally chose what unit to capture.

[Balekai]

Pro Tip: If you can, recruit Cannons via Rally of the Lieges from Reaver Free Cities (Race doesn't mater), since they're constructs). Or release one of your own Cities. I can recruit them in a game right now for 53 Gold, which will go down to like 30ish and no War Spoils cost. It helps that I'm a Vassal build, but also this allows you to spend war spoils on the things you want: More meatshield units from subdue or rushing certain things with War Spoils when critical.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Balekai:

Pro Tip: If you can, recruit Cannons via Rally of the Lieges from Reaver Free Cities (Race doesn't mater), since they're constructs). Or release one of your own Cities. I can recruit them in a game right now for 53 Gold, which will go down to like 30ish and no War Spoils cost. It helps that I'm a Vassal build, but also this allows you to spend war spoils on the things you want: More meatshield units from subdue or rushing certain things with War Spoils when critical.

Nah, people have already found out everything there is to know about the new faction. There is no way that you might find interesting ways to use the war spoils or play anything but a warmonger. ;)
(this was sarcasm btw. Should be obvious, but you never know)


Also not sure what "late game" is, that some people refer to. I am in the early turn 40s(in a 5 player map) and we have a pretty big war going on, as one of the players declared war on my ally. A few cannons wont hurt my economy. Maybe people were hoping to stack a bunch of them for cheap?

Anyway, I have had no issue playing a good-aligned Reaver faction.

[gizmo]

My gripe is that there are just too little machines. I was expecting at least 4-5 mechanical units like cannon, flamethrower tank and more. We've got bare minimum. More golems than other machines. We got cannons and ironclads. I was expecting frost wielding machines, lightning ballistas, poison mortars...

[Balekai]

Originally posted by gizmo:

My gripe is that there are just too little machines. I was expecting at least 4-5 mechanical units like cannon, flamethrower tank and more. We've got bare minimum. More golems than other machines. We got cannons and ironclads. I was expecting frost wielding machines, lightning ballistas, poison mortars...

Hmm true they missed the boat probably on rippng the Dvar Baron and other battlesuits from Planetfall for example. That could have been a cool tome. "Tome of Augmentation" or have been part of the "Tome of the Construct."

Also having a unique Tome unit enchantment that buffs mounts making them mechanical or cyborgish. Mounted units counting as Golems or some such with some boosts. An alternative to having to go into Nature for Mount specialization.

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

/snip

...I don't get it...

:D :D