is there an efficient way to "counter" berserk?

[snuggleform]

Maybe the answer is to just accept the fact that unit is going to live one more turn, but I was wondering are there any efficient/accessible ways to get rid of it? I think the Mystics tier 3 mage has an aoe dispel and there's a dispel in astral tier 5 tome, but to me those are too specific/inaccessible. Is there some answer in a tome that's tier 3 or lower? I'd rather the solution not be culture specific.

Looking around maybe the ice coffin spell isn't strictly a dispel but if you highroll frozen then that effectively counters berserk. Any other answers?

[GreyHuntr]

Easiest way to mitigate the problem is to make sure there is an enemy target available when it happens. Rush your units to get close to the enemy. Make sure you don't trap melee units behind your own lines, so that they have no choice but to attack your own units from behind.

[snuggleform]

Originally posted by GreyHuntr:

Easiest way to mitigate the problem is to make sure there is an enemy target available when it happens. Rush your units to get close to the enemy. Make sure you don't trap melee units behind your own lines, so that they have no choice but to attack your own units from behind.

I'm really looking for some sort of cheap spell to research. I think ice coffin sort of fits the bill but I'm wondering if there are other ways. As I stated if I have to I'll just accept the hit and cope with it by putting beefy units in defense mode as the most likely units to be hit, I can always do that but I was wondering if I missed some sort of spell or tome ability, ideally from tier 3 or lower.

[PlutonArioch]

The mystic tier 3 mage, and the disruption wave, are for dispelling positive effects on your enemies units. Berserk is a negative effect, as it makes the unit uncontrollable. So those won't even work.
Are you asking for a way to counter it on enemy units?

On your own units, any heal that gets rid of negative effects will take care of it. Like the novice support hero skill "restore", the "healing prayer" of the chaplain, or the "revitalize" aoe heal of the nymph, from the tier 2 tome of fertility, which can also be taken as adept hero skill once you have the tome. Just of the top of my head.

To get rid of negative effects on your enemies units, I can right now only think of Chaos Eaters. But yes, anything that immobilizes them should work too to counter this specific effect. Or slow them and keep your units out of reach, so they attack their own.

[Neekromancer]

Is your problem Berserk or Stalwart?

Stalwart leaves the opponents unit at 1hp regardless of how much damage or how many times you hit them. Berserkers from the barbarian culture get both Berserk and Stalwart when they get under 33%hp.

The key to dealing with them is just to crowd control the unit. Ice coffin works great but also anything that applies stun will work. Luckily berserk means that if you don't have any friendlies near them they will instead attack their friends. If you're clever with some displacement you can use that to your advantage.

[Roderick]

Originally posted by PlutonArioch:

The mystic tier 3 mage, and the disruption wave, are for dispelling positive effects on your enemies units. Berserk is a negative effect, as it makes the unit uncontrollable. So those won't even work.
Are you asking for a way to counter it on enemy units?

Doesn't Berserk trigger Steadfast, which is a positive effect to not let you die?

[Wlerin]

Originally posted by snuggleform:

I'm really looking for some sort of cheap spell to research. I think ice coffin sort of fits the bill but I'm wondering if there are other ways. As I stated if I have to I'll just accept the hit and cope with it by putting beefy units in defense mode as the most likely units to be hit, I can always do that but I was wondering if I missed some sort of spell or tome ability, ideally from tier 3 or lower.

Why should there be a cheap counter to a culture's capstone unit's signature ability?

Stun them, Freeze them, hit them with Decaying, get out of their movement range.

Originally posted by Neekromancer:

Is your problem Berserk or Stalwart?

Probably both Berserk and Steadfast. Steadfast keeps them from going below 1HP sure, but Berserk makes them hit like they were still at full health. If you could get rid of Berserk they'd be much easier to ignore until the Steadfast wears off.

[snuggleform]

Originally posted by Wlerin:

Originally posted by snuggleform:

I'm really looking for some sort of cheap spell to research. I think ice coffin sort of fits the bill but I'm wondering if there are other ways. As I stated if I have to I'll just accept the hit and cope with it by putting beefy units in defense mode as the most likely units to be hit, I can always do that but I was wondering if I missed some sort of spell or tome ability, ideally from tier 3 or lower.

Why should there be a cheap counter to a culture's capstone unit's signature ability?

Stun them, Freeze them, hit them with Decaying, get out of their movement range.

Originally posted by Neekromancer:

Is your problem Berserk or Stalwart?

Probably both Berserk and Steadfast. Steadfast keeps them from going below 1HP sure, but Berserk makes them hit like they were still at full health. If you could get rid of Berserk they'd be much easier to ignore until the Steadfast wears off.

I never said there should be. I was asking if there is something I missed. Your mind reading failed. And I said right up front maybe the correct answer is just to accept the hit for what it is and shrug. So you've fallen flat on your face trying to strawman my argument by thinking I assumed there should be an easy way out.

None of you have offered a concrete answer that I didn't already provide (Ice Coffin). You've offered vague answers which I already alluded to ("just" disable it, "just" remove its ability to move act or attack, without pointing to a specific spell in a tome and saying aha that would do.

I will say that I thought of another one called Weak but that is somewhat difficult to apply outside the context of being Dark. Basically have to hope that the random debuffs you get from some of the chaos tomes applies it, outside of using warlocks or archers from a Dark culture.

[darkholyPL]

It's simple. Berserkers activate their zerk/steadfast combo at or below 33% hp. You get them down to as close to 33% as you can, but not hit it, then you finish them off with a strong flank charge or any other strong single hit you have. They will die and not trigger the buffs.

You can also just go for a insta kill move if you have it, or just make sure the will attack their own units when that happenes (trigger it with range attacks/spells).
You can mind controll as well, or just CC them and let it dropp off.

Planty of ways to deal with it. I'm pretty sure you can also dispell it with high level magick if you have that.

[hilfazer]

Combat summons, mind control.

[snuggleform]

Originally posted by Benkei Kuruma:

I don't like your post. Let me fix it for you.

Originally posted by snuggleform:

Hey guys! Thanks for taking the time to read my post and respond. You know what, after thinking about it, I agree, it wouldn't make sense to easily counter Berserk with a spell, a low-tier one at that. That would completely shut down an entire culture's signature ability and would be pretty broken. Still, I was curious if maybe there was a way to specifically dispel it. Looks like there isn't, and that actually makes sense. Peace!

Ah, that's more like it.

I never once said there should exist such a method. And the very first sentence in my original unedited post was a reaosnable nod to the notion that maybe one simply doesn't exist.I asked if one existed. Big difference. I've completely avoided the moral should or should not exist because I simply see no reason to argue morals when all I'm looking for is solutions. If the solution doesn't exist, then I don't need to try to put a moral spin on it. For some reason, you do.

Also, since you brought it up and now that I think about it, there are ways to "shut down an entire culture's signature ability" such as the Mystic's Starblades. There are spells that dispel enemy buffs. So your "cool deep understanding of complex game mechanics and balance" flies out the window. Note that I'm not actually commenting on whether such a counter should or should not exist. I'm merely pointing out the silliness in your own moral argument that counters shouldn't exist to culture's signature abilities, because well they do. Again I know this is too hard for you to grasp but I'm not saying that because a counter to starblades exist that means a counter to berserk should exist. Ain't saying that at all.

[Seswatha]

Has been discussed in another thread here but basically it boils down to:

-Spellbreakers and Disruption Wave you've mentioned
-Any debuff spell if you have Heart of Order
-Instant death effects bypass it. If you want a spell, Crushing Earth, but it's only 60% base chance. Druids of the Cycle should be able to pretty much guaranteed kill once at 1 HP and charge their resurrect/mega heal at the same time
-CC them until it wears off

One of the more fun ways to deal with berserkers is to pop it early and from afar with spells or stacked range archers and let them fight their own army.