Chaos eater's havoc magic is bad

[Wywern]

30% too low, cry about it

[Motherball]

I think the idea is to add status effects with spells and other units, for the chaos eater to then go and eat. Seems like a big waste of time for such little effect. I will never choose that playstyle in the state it is currently.

[Aunty Herbert]

I haven't tried it, but other people really love the Chaos Eater, and find it mazeball. Tier 4 units tend to be the centerpiece of a strat, not just something you can throw into every soup to just make it better.

[ACS36]

Originally posted by Motherball:

I think the idea is to add status effects with spells and other units, for the chaos eater to then go and eat. Seems like a big waste of time for such little effect. I will never choose that playstyle in the state it is currently.

Yeah, it's more or less the same problem with bleed, poison, and burning dots in this game. It's too slow to justify. It's a nice little bonus if you can happen to get it, but it's not worth any kind of investment in terms of your strategy. You want to kill enemies quickly, not wait for them to take small amounts of damage over time.

[ReverseRaven]

I mean if you build around them you get this:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1669000/discussions/0/3828666806665785663/

Which is overkill, but yeah I'd hardly call it weak.

[Aunty Herbert]

Originally posted by Wywern:

swamp trolls and tier 4 spiders, and none of these require any specific support to be good,

Haven't played around with swamp trolls yet, and haven't seen anyone else do it, but spiders want their crit chances buffed, their targets status resistance shattered, and ideally more spiders to start really shining.
Rumors go, that devs are working at nerfing the damage from webs, then they'll need that support even more.
Otherwise they are just tanky with a random chance to roll high.

[Seswatha]

Is not great, however there's plenty of enchants to allow you to stack a ton of debuffs with your base attack, e.g. Mark of Misfortune. Still it's really inefficient to actually use Chaos Eater to apply the debuffs and tbh I don't see why it's a problem. Some things are better with synergies.

I also wouldn't call their attack weak, it deal 14 damage per shot which is on par with other tier 4 battlemages.

[Seswatha]

Originally posted by Wywern:

Originally posted by Seswatha:

Is not great, however there's plenty of enchants to allow you to stack a ton of debuffs with your base attack, e.g. Mark of Misfortune. Still it's really inefficient to actually use Chaos Eater to apply the debuffs and tbh I don't see why it's a problem. Some things are better with synergies.

I also wouldn't call their attack weak, it deal 14 damage per shot which is on par with other tier 4 battlemages.

I don't know where you got 14 from, since whenever I check it says 7 fire, frost or shock.
A unit with an imperium upkeep should not be the kind of unit that NEEDS support from other units, when it isn't a support unit itself. There is no reason a tier 4 unit shouldn't be able to at least enable itself, even if it's less efficient than debuffing with other units.

it does 7 fire base + 7 frost fire or shock random, 14 total. It can oneshot several t5s if they clump up with proper support so it's definitely not lacking power.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by Seswatha:

Originally posted by Wywern:

I don't know where you got 14 from, since whenever I check it says 7 fire, frost or shock.
A unit with an imperium upkeep should not be the kind of unit that NEEDS support from other units, when it isn't a support unit itself. There is no reason a tier 4 unit shouldn't be able to at least enable itself, even if it's less efficient than debuffing with other units.

it does 7 fire base + 7 frost fire or shock random, 14 total. It can oneshot several t5s if they clump up with proper support so it's definitely not lacking power.

https://aow4.paradoxwikis.com/List_of_tome_units#Chaos_tome_units

Here it also says: either 7 lightning - or 7 fire - or 7 frost

It only has a range of 3, but same like the banshee it is a "melee mage" so you can use this range attack engaged in melee. Also it is a battlemage so you can get the free phase skill from Tome of Teleportation.


Haven't really used this unit myself, but i guess with a Dark build it could be amazing.
Does it deal that damage based on the total number of debuff stacks, or just different debuffs?

Think about it - Baneful Curse and Sundering Curse both give 3 different debuffs, then there's icy shackles, and that's just your standard repertoire you unlock at game start.
Targets could be marked, bleeding, poisoned, stunned, slowed...

Another question would be wether the damage rolls before the debuffs are consumed, for the sundered resistances.

[Fendelphi]

Seriously?
Stack 5 negative effects on a group of enemies and it deals 60 base damage to all enemies hit. Being a battle mage also means synergy with upgrades like Phase Enchantment, which allows it to easily get into the best position to use its ability.
And it heals itself while using the ability, for each enemy hit, making it very difficult to actually kill if used correctly(1 turn cooldown ability, 1 action cost).

You dont need a lot of them in an army for them to be effective. Just 1 or 2. Then you have other units and spells to apply a variety of negative status effects.

[Reality]

I used to think Chaos Eaters were terrible until I realized you don't need UNIQUE status effect - Each stack of something like Sunder/Mark counts seperate, so if you have a Glade Runner + Chaos Eater together or Cast the Mental Mark spell,- then you get 5 damage procs

[Seswatha]

Originally posted by Wywern:

Originally posted by Seswatha:

it does 7 fire base + 7 frost fire or shock random, 14 total. It can oneshot several t5s if they clump up with proper support so it's definitely not lacking power.

That's just wrong.

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Originally posted by Seswatha:

it does 7 fire base + 7 frost fire or shock random, 14 total. It can oneshot several t5s if they clump up with proper support so it's definitely not lacking power.

https://aow4.paradoxwikis.com/List_of_tome_units#Chaos_tome_units

Here it also says: either 7 lightning - or 7 fire - or 7 frost

It only has a range of 3, but same like the banshee it is a "melee mage" so you can use this range attack engaged in melee. Also it is a battlemage so you can get the free phase skill from Tome of Teleportation.


Haven't really used this unit myself, but i guess with a Dark build it could be amazing.
Does it deal that damage based on the total number of debuff stacks, or just different debuffs?

Think about it - Baneful Curse and Sundering Curse both give 3 different debuffs, then there's icy shackles, and that's just your standard repertoire you unlock at game start.
Targets could be marked, bleeding, poisoned, stunned, slowed...

Another question would be wether the damage rolls before the debuffs are consumed, for the sundered resistances.

Lol maybe try using the unit before commenting on its balance.

Also the ability card had 7 damage and a fire icon next to it, plus the description mentions another 7 damage, the total damage being 14.

1 debuff stack is counted as a separate debuff, so 5 sundered resistance = 60 base damage with consume. Damage is rolled before consume and is affected by all kinds of % modifiers.

[Aunty Herbert]

Originally posted by Wywern:

the point is clearly to inflict status with it before using Consume Chaos to deal heavy damage and heal, but currently it just doesn't inflict status effects.

Originally posted by Wywern:

Again, please read the topic. I'm not talking about Consume Chaos. I'm talking about Chaos Bolts.

Soooo, the unit is weak, although it has a strong ability, because it also has a weak abilty... did I get that right?

[Maverick]

Go mod Chaos Bolts to do more damage, you could even make it have a 100% chance to inflict status proc. Problem solved thread closed.

Edit Also you say its not about Consume Chaos its about Chaos Bolts but your title is called 'Chaos eater's havoc magic is bad' maybe that's why people are confused because you are

[Maverick]

Havoc Magic is a Unit Enchantment that you unlock with that Tome. The Chaos Eater gets it by default. But you must of known I was right because you corrected the title. Thank you that's all I was saying

[Jolly the Joker]

Chaos Eater doesn't even make sense without "debuff support", so I don't even understand the post. You are not supposed to singlehandefly Chaos Bolt the opposition and then consume them. Chaos Bolts is just an attack to use when you have Consume Chaos on cooldown. Doesn't have to be great.