Too much crit chance?

[Roderick]

Normally I play tanky and just tried crit now (a bit late for the party?). Holy hell, isn't that a bit too easy/much?
Just the "passives":
Traits
Overwhelm Tactics: 10%

Hero Skills
Precision Training: 10% crit (and accuracy)

For Hero alone:
Keen Edge: 20%
(Flameburst Weapons): 20%

Tomes
Tier I: Animal Kinship: 10%
Tier II: Artisan Armaments: 30%, Astral Blood: up to 50%
Tier III: Flameburst Weapons: 20%
Tier V: Force of Nature: 20% (for all plants, which you can transform your race into)

Yo can basicly start with a 30% chance to crit with Overwhelm Tactics and Animal Kinship. With Astral blood you are at 80% in the third turn of each battle, providing you and the other casts a spell each turn. Artisan Armaments is only 20%, but also permanently even without anyone casting, so without Astral Blood it would be permanently 50%. I like the Support skills and add the Precision Training for 60% base chance to crit as soon as you are at tier II with your tomes.
With Astral Blood instead and at least when you also get Flameburst Weapons, you should look at 100% chance to crit with each of you raceunits.

And it's not only the damage. Every crit increases moral of the unit, high moral provides another 20% chance to crit? With a Skald from the Tome of Revelry, Bloodfury Weapons and Revelers Hearst I don't care about a build to destroy enemies moral, how I often have read it hear, but my guys are killing-happy their whole life.

There are even more ways to increase crit through skills and spells, it might get to 200%. There should be either a nerf or an over-crit bonus. xD

[CrUsHeR]

Crit should be capped at maybe 35% or so. Then increase the crit dmg bonus from 50% to 75-100%

And it needs to be fixed so it doesn't roll before the hit/graze/miss/fumble chance

[Roderick]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Crit should be capped at maybe 35% or so. Then increase the crit dmg bonus from 50% to 75-100%

And it needs to be fixed so it doesn't roll before the hit/graze/miss/fumble chance

Would be an idea. At least crits wouldn't be the standard attack anymore... negating the point of a "critical hit".

[MrLuckless]

It's still a turn-based strategy game, so all the same tricks still apply. Your enemy cannot crit if he cannot act, as such anything that stuns or otherwise removes a units ability to act stops that. Fumbles also prevent crits as well as reducing the damage of an attack by 50% BEFORE resistances are taken into account.

What I'm saying is...we have ways of messing with the opponents ability to crit.

[Roderick]

Originally posted by MrLuckless:

It's still a turn-based strategy game, so all the same tricks still apply. Your enemy cannot crit if he cannot act, as such anything that stuns or otherwise removes a units ability to act stops that. Fumbles also prevent crits as well as reducing the damage of an attack by 50% BEFORE resistances are taken into account.

What I'm saying is...we have ways of messing with the opponents ability to crit.

Well, there should be a way to deal with anything, but at least ai can't. :D And I am wondering why there even _is_ a way to accumulate crit chances so fast/easily. And I hope there is no way to truly make an enemy not able to act anymore... that would be another extreme.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Roderick:

Originally posted by MrLuckless:

It's still a turn-based strategy game, so all the same tricks still apply. Your enemy cannot crit if he cannot act, as such anything that stuns or otherwise removes a units ability to act stops that. Fumbles also prevent crits as well as reducing the damage of an attack by 50% BEFORE resistances are taken into account.

What I'm saying is...we have ways of messing with the opponents ability to crit.

Well, there should be a way to deal with anything, but at least ai can't. :D And I am wondering why there even _is_ a way to accumulate crit chances so fast/easily. And I hope there is no way to truly make an enemy not able to act anymore... that would be another extreme.

I personally think for most of the things ingame: as long as you can do it too and the buffs are not limited to your opponent, it is still fair play. After all I had to deal with halflings which had something like you described, per default +40% crit crit chance. on top via repeated buffs.

From my experience so far: you are right - BUT - many things which look good or bad on paper plays differently and might have more or less the feared effect you are expecting. For example: in theory those halflings should have me crushed constantly - what they did at first - but the longer I played against them and did things to counter them, the less dramatic their crits were. I just dealt with them at some point that they have basically "increased hit chance, +25% damage per default, morale increase". Once I just accepted that I fought them in tactical battles normally and crit was just crit. There are so many other things they did which were more dangerous.

And as mentioned before, there are things you can do to counter or to compensate. And by the end of the day it is back to being equalised. Think of it like this: if someone gets the idea and max their crit out, they have spent their resources focusely on crit and lacking on other area.

A common thing you can see with beginners on crit builds in role play games. They come initially strong with a +25% damage and lucky hits. But unless they increase their STR/VIT it is just +25% on a low baseline.

[hilfazer]

Artisan Armaments is +30% and Overwhelm Tactics is +10%.

[Roderick]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

I personally think for most of the things ingame: as long as you can do it too and the buffs are not limited to your opponent, it is still fair play.

...

A common thing you can see with beginners on crit builds in role play games. They come initially strong with a +25% damage and lucky hits. But unless they increase their STR/VIT it is just +25% on a low baseline.

Fun fact: I am a gm and have to deal with players who say they are "just focused on their role" on a constant base. x'D Or "It is in the rules, so you can't say anythign against it." or "As long as both sides can do it, it is fair, right?".
That works on charisma builds, where both argue against each other, support builds ... I mean you can battle which one finds the safest spot in the wild... but not on damage builds. On the one side, the problem on high damage output builds in turn based games is, if the enemy dies with one hit, then there is no "game" anymore.
The other side... almost every damn player who focused on one hit kills and defends with "its fair, its in the rules" absolutely doesn't like it when their char gets one shotted by someone else. For some reason it is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ when an NPC can do that too, there is no talk about fairness or rules anymore.

[Roderick]

Originally posted by hilfazer:

Artisan Armaments is +30% and Overwhelm Tactics is +10%.

Oh, the wiki seens outdated then. Thaks for correction!

[hilfazer]

There's a typo in race creation screen - it says Overwhelm Tactics adds 20% but in reality it's 10%. I've tested that with holding Ctrl (extra info) in combat.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Roderick:

Originally posted by アンジェル:

I personally think for most of the things ingame: as long as you can do it too and the buffs are not limited to your opponent, it is still fair play.

...

A common thing you can see with beginners on crit builds in role play games. They come initially strong with a +25% damage and lucky hits. But unless they increase their STR/VIT it is just +25% on a low baseline.

Fun fact: I am a gm and have to deal with players who say they are "just focused on their role" on a constant base. x'D Or "It is in the rules, so you can't say anythign against it." or "As long as both sides can do it, it is fair, right?".
That works on charisma builds, where both argue against each other, support builds ... I mean you can battle which one finds the safest spot in the wild... but not on damage builds. On the one side, the problem on high damage output builds in turn based games is, if the enemy dies with one hit, then there is no "game" anymore.
The other side... almost every damn player who focused on one hit kills and defends with "its fair, its in the rules" absolutely doesn't like it when their char gets one shotted by someone else. For some reason it is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ when an NPC can do that too, there is no talk about fairness or rules anymore.

I can imagine how you feel. I got the impression the internet/streamlined MMOs and whatever other game responsible is teaching people a weird image of "being a one-trick-pony is good".

Thank goodness as a GM you are not limited, and it is even "part of your job/your privilege" to teach the players a lesson if needed.

But yeah... such experience you describe just reminds me again and again how much a GM is actually doing to keep the whole group entertained. While it is fun to be "the master" it comes with an enormous responsibility and lots of work, and it does not take much for a player to throw all that out of the window...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNNY1ouCByw

[Roderick]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

But yeah... such experience you describe just reminds me again and again how much a GM is actually doing to keep the whole group entertained. While it is fun to be "the master" it comes with an enormous responsibility and lots of work, and it does not take much for a player to throw all that out of the window...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNNY1ouCByw

Every as the dices decide. *cries internally*

[MEATSHED]

Honestly I'm fine with being able to stack crit like that, I just think getting a crit shouldn't make ranged attacks auto-hit.

[dolby]

you can get more btw but even then they are counters in all sorts of things from hp + resistance, misfortune+ nagitive morale, healing + summons and so, undead stuff like that...


The problem is you don't really know what enimies build will be cos they can all get anything and everything so that's the akward thingy not the crit build per say.

Llast but not least there is still positioning... One crit hit from a salvo hurts a lot less then all 3.

[Aeekto]

Well, it's still a "Singleplayer game first", so who cares about stuff being a little bit stronger than other stuff?!
There is no competition, no ladder, no stats, no epeen, just absolutly nothing that would make it necessary to think about balance.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by ....:

Well, it's still a "Singleplayer game first", so who cares about stuff being a little bit stronger than other stuff?!
There is no competition, no ladder, no stats, no epeen, just absolutly nothing that would make it necessary to think about balance.

And that makes you think it is a singleplayer game, huh?