Is a low fantasy run possible?

[Reno Story]

I recently discovered this game, and from what I seen so far it is absolutely ticking my fancy. However, I can't help but wonder just how much freedom you really have when creating your own kingdom.

Mainly, I was wondering if a "low fantasy run" was possible?

For instance, lets just say I decide to make a somewhat normal human kingdom that specializes in formation and large numbers of standard troops rather than relying on magical creatures and battlemages. Would I use a little magic here and there? Probably if it calls for it, but mostly it would boil down to blood and steel (and maybe gunpowder, but I'd probably be getting my hopes up thinking there would be some late game musket unit for certain cultures).

I'm not saying that I want to make a world where magic is minimal, but if it's even viable to play a low magic kingdom or not, just for flavor's sake and personal challenge. I'm thinkin of getting this regardless, but me being the odd sort, it would be nice to make something unusual if given the chance.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Reno Story:

Is a low fantasy run possible?
I recently discovered this game, and from what I seen so far it is absolutely ticking my fancy. However, I can't help but wonder just how much freedom you really have when creating your own kingdom.

Mainly, I was wondering if a "low fantasy run" was possible?

For instance, lets just say I decide to make a somewhat normal human kingdom that specializes in formation and large numbers of standard troops rather than relying on magical creatures and battlemages. Would I use a little magic here and there? Probably if it calls for it, but mostly it would boil down to blood and steel (and maybe gunpowder, but I'd probably be getting my hopes up thinking there would be some late game musket unit for certain cultures).

I'm not saying that I want to make a world where magic is minimal, but if it's even viable to play a low magic kingdom or not, just for flavor's sake and personal challenge. I'm thinkin of getting this regardless, but me being the odd sort, it would be nice to make something unusual if given the chance.

No. The disadvantages are simply too great as everything is about magic.

added: even if you play yourself a faction with low fantasy, there is no option to limit the enemies. so you could do with e.g. enchantments, better armour and such, but you would have to face giants you have no chances against with

[Fuinril]

Define "magic".

The "pure" magic (casting spells) is pretty lackluster in this game, so yes. However magic buffs are a part of your "technological adavance" toward the end of the game. Not casting them means doing a techless run in CiV : it might be possible but that would not be easy.

[Stormsong]

You could try a Feudal Culture so that your support units are bannermen instead of mages. Human species (maaaaybe elves, idk how strict you're being here).

You'd focus on Materium, which is the magic of the physical; rock, steel that kind of thing. You could also dip into nature. Half of it is ents, tree people and crazy ♥♥♥♥. But the other half is buffs, healing, and poisons. Pretty low fantasy, depending on how you choose to contextualize it. Maybe the healing is just medicine?

So, Human, Feudal, Materium + Nature. Then go for a Military or Expansion victory.

I think you could do it! There are going to be some magic elements, even there, but it seems fairly grounded on paper. This is referring to "feel" mainly. In the end you would still be using spells and stuff, they'd just be materium and nature spells.

[Midas]

Originally posted by Reno Story:

I recently discovered this game, and from what I seen so far it is absolutely ticking my fancy. However, I can't help but wonder just how much freedom you really have when creating your own kingdom.

Mainly, I was wondering if a "low fantasy run" was possible?

For instance, lets just say I decide to make a somewhat normal human kingdom that specializes in formation and large numbers of standard troops rather than relying on magical creatures and battlemages. Would I use a little magic here and there? Probably if it calls for it, but mostly it would boil down to blood and steel (and maybe gunpowder, but I'd probably be getting my hopes up thinking there would be some late game musket unit for certain cultures).

I'm not saying that I want to make a world where magic is minimal, but if it's even viable to play a low magic kingdom or not, just for flavor's sake and personal challenge. I'm thinkin of getting this regardless, but me being the odd sort, it would be nice to make something unusual if given the chance.

Feudal culture is basically what they're describing. They have no racial battlemage units, and their support spellcaster is a bannerman that is basically supporting with morale and rallying, instead of magical healing.

Outside of that, it depends on what you pick. A big and unavoidable part of your faction growth throughout the game will be from magical tomes you research, but some are a lot more magic-themed than others. While there are ones that are all about magic, like the Astral Affinity tomes, there are also tomes in the Materium Affinity range that are more about technology and empire growth than magic. Also several tomes grant you new units to train, and not just summon.

I'd expect that by following the Materium and maybe Order tomes, you could get a full roster up to the endgame that relies on few or no magical units at all. No battlemages, no summoned creatures, etc. Though there's always going to be some magic.

[Drake]

Feodal + materium / order / nature. Nature for beasts, order for more low fantasy units (zealots, tyrant knights, inquisitors, eagle riders) and structures and materium for physical enhancements.

Technically there is a way to make it work. You could also throw in the tome of the horde for the pack master.

The main drawback is that you'll have to stay clear of the minor and major transformations (because they'll change your race too much physically, like growing wings, getting red skin etc.), and those are really powerful.

[Valore]

You could still thematically go Order and use their units and assume things like Zeal and Condemnation are just literally excessive fanaticism. Things like Eagle Riders and Tyrants aren't technically magic either and are solid enough units.

[Reno Story]

Originally posted by Fuinril:

Define "magic".

The "pure" magic (casting spells) is pretty lackluster in this game, so yes. However magic buffs are a part of your "technological adavance" toward the end of the game. Not casting them means doing a techless run in CiV : it might be possible but that would not be easy.

I don't have much of an idea what to expect here, but it's mostly a military thing.

An army made of rows of pikemen and archers instead of mystical beasts and spell flingers. knights who ride into battle on horseback instead of griffins or dragons. A kingdom of man (or orc, or rat, or fish person) who fight on despite their lack of fireballs or undead swarms or giants.

I'm not sure just how "low fantasy" I can get, but it would be interesting to try and see.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Reno Story:

Originally posted by Fuinril:

Define "magic".

The "pure" magic (casting spells) is pretty lackluster in this game, so yes. However magic buffs are a part of your "technological adavance" toward the end of the game. Not casting them means doing a techless run in CiV : it might be possible but that would not be easy.

I don't have much of an idea what to expect here, but it's mostly a military thing.

An army made of rows of pikemen and archers instead of mystical beasts and spell flingers. knights who ride into battle on horseback instead of griffins or dragons. A kingdom of man (or orc, or rat, or fish person) who fight on despite their lack of fireballs or undead swarms or giants.

I'm not sure just how "low fantasy" I can get, but it would be interesting to try and see.

I am surprised by all the confident replies you got that you actually could manage that. I am not convinced, as the game uses a very strong rock, paper, scissor element. Hence my expectation that it will not be viable. It is like you trying to bring an army from the dark ages facing WWII tanks at some point. You might not even reach them with your pikes to begin with.

[Reno Story]

Originally posted by Drake:

The main drawback is that you'll have to stay clear of the minor and major transformations (because they'll change your race too much physically, like growing wings, getting red skin etc.), and those are really powerful.

That's certainly something I did think about, and I hope that the game doesn't force such things upon you.

I understand that it is partially a roleplaying game, and at points you will encounter events that change the course of history and leave lasting scars or deforms you in a way beyond human comprehension, but it would be nice to see if one could rule the world without divine intervention, instead relying on grit and courage against all odds.

[PlutonArioch]

I don't see why not. It will probably be more difficult than going heavy on magic, as you will be missing buffs and enchantments that everyone else will have, but I don't know of any reason why it should not work at all. In fact I am planning to do that at some point myself. For now I am still exploring the magic options though.

Gunpowder is currently not in the game, but it is suspected that one of the announced DLCs is going to add it back. There was a gunpowder faction in AoW3, so it stands to reason that it may come back in the DLC that is focused on the remains of that faction.

[SBA77]

Originally posted by Reno Story:

I recently discovered this game, and from what I seen so far it is absolutely ticking my fancy. However, I can't help but wonder just how much freedom you really have when creating your own kingdom.

Mainly, I was wondering if a "low fantasy run" was possible?

For instance, lets just say I decide to make a somewhat normal human kingdom that specializes in formation and large numbers of standard troops rather than relying on magical creatures and battlemages. Would I use a little magic here and there? Probably if it calls for it, but mostly it would boil down to blood and steel (and maybe gunpowder, but I'd probably be getting my hopes up thinking there would be some late game musket unit for certain cultures).

Well the major problem with that is the units you get from your culture are really your basic low to mid-tier units. Your top tier units come from the tomes and are mostly magical creatures or the monsters that you recruit from captured dungeons. It seems to be that you are supposed to either buff them with magic like crazy or replace them with the tome and neutral monster units. Some of those tome units are just normal guys of your race (usually spellcasters, priests, warriors and the like) though and the Order tomes have the most units like that, so that's one possible angle you can go with. You can check the database[minionsart.github.io] to see if there is anything you like.

You may also be able to make due with lower tier units by just buffing with spells but I'm not sure that's what you want/Unfortunately they don't really have the units to support only relying on your cultural units. Could be a fun challenge run, but I think you need the tome units and the monsters they provide to be viable in this game.

Originally posted by Reno Story:

(and maybe gunpowder, but I'd probably be getting my hopes up thinking there would be some late game musket unit for certain cultures).

Gunpoweder units aren't in yet, but they may be at the end of the year.[www.paradoxinteractive.com]

[Donuel the Daring]

I've been thinking that someday I might try an entire game without casting any spells. That would be a huge challenge; but so far I haven't encountered anything to make me think it's impossible.

For now, I play as pretty vanilla feudal humans, as others have commented, and I go mostly order/materium. I start to pick up more "exotic" magical-oriented things later in the game, when I feel like I've earned them. Lol.

Btw, if you're a low-fantasy kind of guy, and you like pitting ordinary humans against a fantasy world, you might like Battle Brothers (though it's quite a bit different from a game like this). Just a thought.

[Reno Story]

Originally posted by Donuel the Daring:

Btw, if you're a low-fantasy kind of guy, and you like pitting ordinary humans against a fantasy world, you might like Battle Brothers (though it's quite a bit different from a game like this). Just a thought.

It's more as a test of the games limits on what you can create as a faction, since I find the system to be quite fascinating and open to experimentation. It might not be super deep, but then with a little creativity I could probably make all sorts of strange and curious factions for my own amusement, and see if I can't win a game with them.

Going for the most optimal faction might make a game easier, but sometimes it's nice to do something very un-optimal and see where it takes you and what antics you could get up to.


From what I'm hearing, however, it seems that at best, I'd be able to achieve a "mid magic" faction at best, and that's not a deal breaker. But then, I have yet to get the game, so I wouldn't really know what to expect until I start playing, so yeh, pretty much what I expected.

[PlutonArioch]

Originally posted by Reno Story:

From what I'm hearing, however, it seems that at best, I'd be able to achieve a "mid magic" faction at best...

I disagree. There is nothing in the game that forces you to use magic. You will need to pick a research from a magic tome, but you don't have to use it. You will do less damage and lose more units if you don't use enchantments, transformations, buffs, magic healing, and magic attacks, but that just means you will have to plan and build accordingly.
You will also have no use for one of the games main resources (mana) and arguably not much use for research either (unless you do want something from a specific tome), so you can focus more on resources like gold, production, draft, and food, things that help you make bigger armies, and support them.

Yes some enemies will be much more difficult, especially if you also don't make use of monsters and units you get through tomes by research, but some of them are not necessarily magic. It depends on how you define it.
Yes, you do not get cultural units of the highest tier, but that does not mean you can not beat higher tier armies at all. It is just going to be more challenging than "normal".
All you need to do to win is beat your enemies and don't lose. I am certain you can do that without ever casting a spell, if you know what you are doing.

[Midas]

Originally posted by Reno Story:

Originally posted by Fuinril:

Define "magic".

The "pure" magic (casting spells) is pretty lackluster in this game, so yes. However magic buffs are a part of your "technological adavance" toward the end of the game. Not casting them means doing a techless run in CiV : it might be possible but that would not be easy.

I don't have much of an idea what to expect here, but it's mostly a military thing.

An army made of rows of pikemen and archers instead of mystical beasts and spell flingers. knights who ride into battle on horseback instead of griffins or dragons. A kingdom of man (or orc, or rat, or fish person) who fight on despite their lack of fireballs or undead swarms or giants.

I'm not sure just how "low fantasy" I can get, but it would be interesting to try and see.

Yeah, that's Feudal in a nutshell.

https://minionsart.github.io/aow4db/

Take a look at the culture units, those are the basis of your race.