Limit how many tomes one can research

[Elan]

Hello,

As an old Age of Wonders fan, I really like the 4th entry. It is refreshing in many ways. However, I find it very frustrating that there is no option to limit how many tomes are researchable.
This game is all about roleplaying and making decisions, right ? If we can research every single tomes in longer games (appart from tier 5), then doesn't it kinda defeats the purpose of roleplaying and making choices ?

Also, I would love to be able to cancel race transformation, or disable some visuals.

Thank you for making such an awesome game Triumph Studio.

Edit : apparently some people misunderstood me. I am not asking for Triumph to limit how many tomes we can research. I am in fact asking for an option, in the settings. This would help each game feel different, in my opinion.

Also, if you know how to stop learning spells and tomes, I'm all ears. I keep reading "you dont have to learn spells, you can stick to your RP", but how do you do that?
I feel like the endless research bonus from Planetfall were a neat idea. I would love the option to get some increasingly difficult random bonuses to research, once my 9 tomes are fully unlocked.

[sandman25dcsss]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2973428262

[SomeGuy1]

Originally posted by RodHull:

Originally posted by SQW:

And also limit how far down the affinity perk branch your faction can go. If you went for undead, maybe you can only go 1/3 into nature. If you pick faith, maybe you can't touch the chaos branch at all.

Strategy game is about overcoming your limitation. Able to do everything just makes it less of a challenge and godir knows AoW4 AI isn't up to it.

I don't have an issue with that, its already limited by your access to affinity and imperium. I actually think you should be able to have what you want even contradictory things, but it should get more expensive to research each tier 4 and above tome.

you can only get one tier 5 tome period btw. and getting every tier 4 does mean investing a decent amount in the previous tiers to build up the affinity required.

and if you're really going through all the tomes of multiple branches, something is very wrong. magic victory unlocks as soon as the tier 5 is taken, the game should be ending from that.

[Primal Feed]

Or you can just hit "CLOSE" instead of selecting new Tomb or Research. It doesn't force you to select.

[Midas]

Originally posted by Arctic Feed:

Or you can just hit "CLOSE" instead of selecting new Tomb or Research. It doesn't force you to select.

Basically choosing to forgo free power at that point, so I can understand people not wanting to do that.

Though this really does seem like something that, especially after all the DLC is out, should only crop up as a problem in extremely long games.

[RodHull]

Originally posted by SQW:

Originally posted by RodHull:

I don't have an issue with that, its already limited by your access to affinity and imperium. I actually think you should be able to have what you want even contradictory things, but it should get more expensive to research each tier 4 and above tome.

It only takes a specific hero with affinity trait and you can bee line the perk branch completely outside of your initial faction setup. Since you aren't picking very perk, it's easy to get some key nods off a branch like that Chaos one that spawns a unit 50% of the time after a battle.

Things like this can completely dominate your play style and you end up picking tombs for min/max reason and throws all the role playing part out the window. You could always min/max in AoW games but this is the first time you have access to perks from everyone.

Oh I don't deny the system is open to min maxing, it absolutely is. I just think the freedom you lose (which seems to be behind this entry into the series) constraining that probably isn't worth it.

I'm an old school pnp roleplayer though so for me I always rp a race I make so I tend avoid min maxing as much as possible.

[Primal Feed]

Originally posted by Midas:

Originally posted by Arctic Feed:

Or you can just hit "CLOSE" instead of selecting new Tomb or Research. It doesn't force you to select.

Basically choosing to forgo free power at that point, so I can understand people not wanting to do that.

Though this really does seem like something that, especially after all the DLC is out, should only crop up as a problem in extremely long games.

If folks want hard stops, gates, and limits whats stopping them?
Oh, the word customization in a AOW game.

[sandman25dcsss]

Originally posted by Arctic Feed:

Originally posted by Midas:

Basically choosing to forgo free power at that point, so I can understand people not wanting to do that.

Though this really does seem like something that, especially after all the DLC is out, should only crop up as a problem in extremely long games.

If folks want hard stops, gates, and limits whats stopping them?
Oh, the word customization in a AOW game.

Most players play SP while your advice applies to MP only. I don't want to fight 5 identical AIs which I met on turn 100 when they have all possible minor transformations and enchantments.

[RodHull]

Originally posted by sandman25dcsss:

Originally posted by Arctic Feed:

If folks want hard stops, gates, and limits whats stopping them?
Oh, the word customization in a AOW game.

Most players play SP while your advice applies to MP only. I don't want to fight 5 identical AIs which I met on turn 100 when they have all possible minor transformations and enchantments.

While that is indeed an issue currently it is a pretty hyperbolic edge case, not many people are playing a map long enough for that to happen.

The game is quite rapid compared to other 4x games, it shares that with civ6 in that you can easily get a good size map done pretty quickly, unlike say something like Stellaris which can drag on forever.

That's not to belittle the issue just saying its fairly niche

[Viscule]

Originally posted by RodHull:

Originally posted by sandman25dcsss:

Most players play SP while your advice applies to MP only. I don't want to fight 5 identical AIs which I met on turn 100 when they have all possible minor transformations and enchantments.

While that is indeed an issue currently it is a pretty hyperbolic edge case, not many people are playing a map long enough for that to happen.

The game is quite rapid compared to other 4x games, it shares that with civ6 in that you can easily get a good size map done pretty quickly, unlike say something like Stellaris which can drag on forever.

That's not to belittle the issue just saying its fairly niche

Depending on difficulty lvl, it genuinely doesn't take that long for the AI to get there. Seeing as they cheat resources, etc.

[sandman25dcsss]

Originally posted by RodHull:

Originally posted by sandman25dcsss:

Most players play SP while your advice applies to MP only. I don't want to fight 5 identical AIs which I met on turn 100 when they have all possible minor transformations and enchantments.

While that is indeed an issue currently it is a pretty hyperbolic edge case, not many people are playing a map long enough for that to happen.

The game is quite rapid compared to other 4x games, it shares that with civ6 in that you can easily get a good size map done pretty quickly, unlike say something like Stellaris which can drag on forever.

That's not to belittle the issue just saying its fairly niche

Probably. 164 replies in corresponding Paradox thread, so it is not that small niche https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/late-game-is-hell-with-no-tome-limit.1581126/

[RodHull]

Originally posted by sandman25dcsss:

Probably. 164 replies in corresponding Paradox thread, so it is not that small niche https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/late-game-is-hell-with-no-tome-limit.1581126/

Hate to be that guy, and again I am not belittling this, I do think some system of exponential costs for tomes outside of the first two spheres (or something) would be great, but it is still fairly niche. Game has quite the player base currently and while 164 is not insignificant its also not common (also I presume they all aren't in agreement or it would be the first thread in the history of the internet which was)

And just to be super clear, I broadly agree some sort of spiralling cost would be good, just don't think its a priority right now.

[sandman25dcsss]

Originally posted by RodHull:

Originally posted by sandman25dcsss:

Probably. 164 replies in corresponding Paradox thread, so it is not that small niche https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/late-game-is-hell-with-no-tome-limit.1581126/

Hate to be that guy, and again I am not belittling this, I do think some system of exponential costs for tomes outside of the first two spheres (or something) would be great, but it is still fairly niche. Game has quite the player base currently and while 164 is not insignificant its also not common (also I presume they all aren't in agreement or it would be the first thread in the history of the internet which was)

And just to be super clear, I broadly agree some sort of spiralling cost would be good, just don't think its a priority right now.

There are at least 3 mods which try to fix tome issues, one of them increases research costs indeed, while also limiting tomes to research. So I guess everyone can be happy now as mods allow us to choose how we want to play it.

[RodHull]

Exactly, one of the great things about how Triumph approached this entry was to make modding the game much easier than it had been in the past.

[SQW]

Imagine the DnD community split along the people who want traditional classes and those who want to play a tanking stealth mage dual wielding battle axes.

[SQW]

Originally posted by RodHull:

Exactly, one of the great things about how Triumph approached this entry was to make modding the game much easier than it had been in the past.

Some guy already did a mod limiting tomes. Unfortunately he compensated a bit extreme so every tier gets only 2 picks and 1 at tier V.