Limit how many tomes one can research

[Elan]

Hello,

As an old Age of Wonders fan, I really like the 4th entry. It is refreshing in many ways. However, I find it very frustrating that there is no option to limit how many tomes are researchable.
This game is all about roleplaying and making decisions, right ? If we can research every single tomes in longer games (appart from tier 5), then doesn't it kinda defeats the purpose of roleplaying and making choices ?

Also, I would love to be able to cancel race transformation, or disable some visuals.

Thank you for making such an awesome game Triumph Studio.

Edit : apparently some people misunderstood me. I am not asking for Triumph to limit how many tomes we can research. I am in fact asking for an option, in the settings. This would help each game feel different, in my opinion.

Also, if you know how to stop learning spells and tomes, I'm all ears. I keep reading "you dont have to learn spells, you can stick to your RP", but how do you do that?
I feel like the endless research bonus from Planetfall were a neat idea. I would love the option to get some increasingly difficult random bonuses to research, once my 9 tomes are fully unlocked.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Elan:

Limit how many tomes one can research
Hello,

As an old Age of Wonders fan, I really like the 4th entry. It is refreshing in many ways. However, I find it very frustrating that there is no option to limit how many tomes are researchable.
This game is all about roleplaying and making decisions, right ? If we can research every single tomes in longer games (appart from tier 5), then doesn't it kinda defeats the purpose of roleplaying and making choices ?

Also, I would love to be able to cancel race transformation, or disable some visuals.

Thank you for making such an awesome game Triumph Studio. :HappyMask:

There is some mindset clash here which can be discussed. You see it as breach of roleplay immersion, which is a valid argument, if everyone can research everything without limitations - making it seemingly less distinguishable between factions over the long term.

As someone who is close to have reasearched everything in my current game I can assure you: that is nothing to worry about, which might be due to a different mindset.

I see it for my part as important roleplay element that you can make those choises, with as little restrictions and limitations as possible. That not only opens up incredible interesting stories, but I can also ensure you: no, the factions in my game are still incredible distinguishable from each other.

To give you an idea: i started with high noble orcs, with a classic allrounder set of tomes. When I got attacked and overhwelmed by numbers and outgunned by the enemy, I chose Necromancy as desperate measure, whereas the enemy kept attacking me with their units of order. After I have successfully managed to defend with skeletons and demons, I chose Angelize as major transformation while my enemy Gaia's chosen. That made it very interesting with high level research boons but two entire different armies and playstyle in late game.

In the meanwhile my enemy on the other side of the realm turned into a lich king, terraforming all his area into snowfields with his frostling transformation. Instead like the lucky halflings, which relyed on buffs, I was fighting at the moment, his army was made full of super strong enchanted units, who do not rely that much on buffs. Making it for a fearsome army.

Everyone the same? Never. That would make no sense to begin with. My enemy who made their army fire resistant and had given all their heroes fire immunity rings, when I was specialised in Pyromancy, know that it will not work with everyone being the same. It is about proper strategising and roleplaying.

And because of that I am convinced you have nothing to fear from the freedom of choice the game gives you in that regards,

[Gundalf]

Yeah lategame once you have your tier 5 tome finished amd have 800+ research you can breeze through all the lower tier tomes.

The best solution might be some sort of scaling research cost, so you can still get more then nine tomes but dont finish them super fast.

A hard limit would have the problem that it would make knowledge income completly useless once you rearched everything avaialbe.

[Hao Zhao]

Every tome is available for research because they give different affinities. Not having them available to everyone would significantly restrict how you build your empire over the course of a game. I'm not against tomes becoming limited, necessarily, but they would have to largely redesign the affinity system to compensate.

Ultimately, this game is about building your custom race/empire. Locking your barbarian culture empire to chaos tomes only is going to make them infinitely more bland than the current system. People like to be creative and they like to mix and match.

[Shin]

I mean if it is optional, then yes why not?

[Jimib4158]

i prefer they leave it as is, i mean id love to research every possible tome one empire if possible

[parent child bowl]

They won't limit the amount of tomes you can pick.

During testing the number was limited and after heavily discussing the system, they came to the conclusion that it goes against the game pillars they have for AoW4. That's why they switched to the affinity threshold system.

[Viscule]

I do agree that being able to research every possible tome isn't that fun in longer games. It would be more enjoyable if it was a bit more limited, so endgame doesn't end up just being everyone having everything.

[dolby]

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

. That's why they switched to the affinity threshold system.

As it should be, in my opinion.


And op is talking about roleplaying and making choices... SO not sure what going on here..
Cos all he needs to do is make choice and not use all tomes simple as that.


At least if it was from a power gaming stand point i would at least understand it.
As is not really. Infact for roleplaying i would wont as many options as you can get, the way it's done right now. SO this thread makes no senese whatsoever, to me.

[archonsod]

Originally posted by Elan:

This game is all about roleplaying and making decisions, right ? If we can research every single tomes in longer games (appart from tier 5), then doesn't it kinda defeats the purpose of roleplaying and making choices ?

One of the choices you can currently make of course being to not research anything.

Also, I would love to be able to cancel race transformation, or disable some visuals.

Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of roleplaying and making choices?

[Rhalius]

I think the only thing they should change is that tomes should maybe require a certain affinity level to be available. It should not be possible to research a 3th tier tome from something you have zero affinity in.

That would restrict it just a little more but still leaves it open to develop any affinity to reach the point you can get it.

Also we need a toggle option for transformations, like at character creation let us toggle visual transformations on or off for that species.
I don't like it that my long haired necromancer lady always ends up a bald corpse when the AI controlls her.
Maybe only wings should appear if it's toggled off, like if the transformation makes them fly because that's a different animation.

[MrButtermancer]

Much prefer being able to meaningfully progress after my 9th tome in research-heavy builds. Which is only relevant some of the time, because you can end the game earlier anyways.

The most I've EVER had in a game where I was research-heavy and dragging my feet on winning was 24 tomes. Fewer than half. Most games will end much faster. And the game will get even more tomes with DLC. The "but I can research all muh tomes" is purely a theoretical concern. In practice, you just don't finish the tree. And the ones you choose first matter much more.

I'd rather it stay as is.

[Sarissofoi]

Somewhat agree.
For current fix just play on slow speed(but it would be nice to have even slower speed tbh)

[Neonivek]

Honestly unless you drag your heels... A map will typically be done once you reach the 5th level tome or even 4th level.

I've never organically starting to drift into all the tomes.

[glythe]

Originally posted by Gundalf:

Yeah lategame once you have your tier 5 tome finished amd have 800+ research you can breeze through all the lower tier tomes.

The best solution might be some sort of scaling research cost, so you can still get more then nine tomes but dont finish them super fast.

A hard limit would have the problem that it would make knowledge income completly useless once you rearched everything avaialbe.

What you are missing here is that that these are not fun mechanics; games are meant to be fun.

When you put tech on a system where every tech costs more it just allows everyone to catch up. If you have 5 cities to 2 cities of the enemy you should feel that difference. The point is to get ahead and then crush the enemy.

[~ Fabulous ~]

the ability of able to research everything make me feel like it was AoW2 again when you choose cosmos before they nerf it in SM