Astral Mages with that stupid pasive buff attacks for literal make nothing must stop

[Dynamo Rex (mrrexplorer)]

Astral Blade must eliminated from the game, no NERF, ELIMINATED FROM THE GAME.

A stupid broken hability who if you dont use a sacred shields or barbarians stuns charge you are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ death.

You choose Industry? You are death You choose feudal? You are Death You Choose Darkness? You are death. The only Meta-army nows are the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ same, first Astral, Barbarians and Order. Chaos Astral barbarians with astral are just red/blue are broken like ♥♥♥♥, Pure Order is broken like ♥♥♥♥ (Invencible moral, spirititual damage from all attacks, infinite stacks from defense, moral and attacks, always first attack, always first defense) Astral Order.....well, you can imagine, infinite heal and infinite upgraded from all attacks defense and resistances WTF.

Just deleted astral blades, just ♥♥♥♥ off that passive. Just kill entire armys with three attacks all time..

[AnemoneMeer]

Originally posted by Antpile:

Originally posted by AnemoneMeer:

Think about it this way. You start Feudal w/ Adept Settlers. You immediately rush level 2 on your leader, get Lord of Crops, and now your city has absurd food gain. Grab your starting animals too and your city will consistently be double or more other empires cities. With a bit of governor cycling, all your cities will *explode* in population, get huge infusions of build speed, and generally snowball wildly out of control. These bigger cities are giving you more resources and more units.

Yes, your units are a little bit worse. But your cities are 5+ pop over your rivals and you have more of them, with higher production. And some beastly economic buildings.

I'm not sure +15 food is absurd food gain. The granary alone is 20.

Last I checked, it's 25. And yes, that early in the game, that is some extremely chunky gains.

Also, as stated, Star Blades has two costs. The first is that you are eating through your mana reserves, and will need to dedicate production and gold towards increasing mana income to sustain Star Blades. And the second one is that your units are just plain worse without it.

Star Blades is bar none, no contest, THE best option for trash fights. If both sides are throwing around T1 units, Star Blades wins every time. And it should, you're paying for every stack of it in mana and without it, your units are just worse.

[Pumis]

Originally posted by AnemoneMeer:

Originally posted by Antpile:

I'm not sure +15 food is absurd food gain. The granary alone is 20.

Last I checked, it's 25. And yes, that early in the game, that is some extremely chunky gains.

Also, as stated, Star Blades has two costs. The first is that you are eating through your mana reserves, and will need to dedicate production and gold towards increasing mana income to sustain Star Blades. And the second one is that your units are just plain worse without it.

Star Blades is bar none, no contest, THE best option for trash fights. If both sides are throwing around T1 units, Star Blades wins every time. And it should, you're paying for every stack of it in mana and without it, your units are just worse.

You don't need to cast for it to activate. It's enough that enemy casts. Also people generally always use spells in fights unless they are fighting easy encounter. In which case the blade wouldn't make any difference.

[Hivemind]

Originally posted by Pumis:

again already refuted the "most culture have better damage". It doesn't take much to point out that they are highly conditional and demand you to sacrifice action cost not just that but they generally are actually less damage (stand together is like +2). While star blade costs virtually nothing.

Improve your reading comprehension. I said explicitly that star blades has *better damage* than most other cultures' specific damage buffs in most situations, but that this isn't as significant as you think it is. You could at least reread what you're responding to before saying you've "refuted" it.

[Pumis]

Originally posted by Hivemind:

Originally posted by Pumis:

again already refuted the "most culture have better damage". It doesn't take much to point out that they are highly conditional and demand you to sacrifice action cost not just that but they generally are actually less damage (stand together is like +2). While star blade costs virtually nothing.

Improve your reading comprehension. I said explicitly that star blades has *better damage* than most other cultures' specific damage buffs in most situations, but that this isn't as significant as you think it is. You could at least reread what you're responding to before saying you've "refuted" it.

Trying to mock my reading comprehension doesn't make my points invalid.

[AnemoneMeer]

Originally posted by Pumis:

Originally posted by AnemoneMeer:

Last I checked, it's 25. And yes, that early in the game, that is some extremely chunky gains.

Also, as stated, Star Blades has two costs. The first is that you are eating through your mana reserves, and will need to dedicate production and gold towards increasing mana income to sustain Star Blades. And the second one is that your units are just plain worse without it.

Star Blades is bar none, no contest, THE best option for trash fights. If both sides are throwing around T1 units, Star Blades wins every time. And it should, you're paying for every stack of it in mana and without it, your units are just worse.

You don't need to cast for it to activate. It's enough that enemy casts. Also people generally always use spells in fights unless they are fighting easy encounter. In which case the blade wouldn't make any difference.

In the case of an early game trashwar between two empires, yes. Mystic wins. Star blades excels at this. Generally speaking, much like getting into a land war in asia, you shouldn't be fighting Mystic players in a T1 trash fight.

Once we start getting into higher tier units, Star blades is not very impactful and your racial units are worse baseline than others.

I make it a point to only use magic when I need it early, even as a wizard king, so that I can save resources and focus on my economy. My units can heal HP over time, but any mana spent is mana I don't have to get enchantments and summons up early.

[Pumis]

Originally posted by AnemoneMeer:

Originally posted by Pumis:

You don't need to cast for it to activate. It's enough that enemy casts. Also people generally always use spells in fights unless they are fighting easy encounter. In which case the blade wouldn't make any difference.

In the case of an early game trashwar between two empires, yes. Mystic wins. Star blades excels at this. Generally speaking, much like getting into a land war in asia, you shouldn't be fighting Mystic players in a T1 trash fight.

Once we start getting into higher tier units, Star blades is not very impactful and your racial units are worse baseline than others.

I make it a point to only use magic when I need it early, even as a wizard king, so that I can save resources and focus on my economy. My units can heal HP over time, but any mana spent is mana I don't have to get enchantments and summons up early.

No clue why you keep calling them as trash fights, usually wording is used to describe pointless or menial fights not rush strategies. This makes mystics superior for rushing strategies.

For baseline for higher tiers. I take it that you haven't tried yet mass producing tier 1 units in late game? Extremely viable and strong strategy if done correctly. Units that basically cost nothing, and do ridiculously high damage, enough to even destroy higher tier units within single turn. Star blade contributes a lot to such approach.

"I make it a point to only use magic when I need it early, even as a wizard king, so that I can save resources and focus on my economy."
Thing is... That's your own personal choice, and playing as mystic without using magic well... kind of defeats purpose of playing mystic in the first place.

[Fendelphi]

Starblades is good on early tier 1 units. And that is about it. It is not a bad buff overall, since it usually is applied "naturally"(you often want to cast spells when possible. Same for your enemy), but at the same time, its impact is greatly reduced in several situations.

1) On turn 1, neither side can cast spells(early game). Now, depending on units and map, neither side can engage each other either, so it is less of an issue in terms of "who is doing the most damage". But sometimes, damage is being dealt on turn 1, and you are missing out in these situations.

2) Spelljammers stops it from being activated.

3) Single hit attacks gets a very small benefit from it, compared to other culture damage buffs.

4) It takes 3 spell casts to be fully charged. That often means, turn 3 before it is fully active.

5) It is actually not the strongest "flat damage" buff. That belongs to High Culture(+4). Some might claim that the High Culture one is harder to activate, but that depends on the alignment. In the mid game, a Pure Evil High Culture starts every battle Awakened(and the Awakened state not only provides the flat damage buff, but also additional effects, unlike Star Blades).

6) It is heavily countered by elemental resistance. Tome of Warding can quickly counter these strategies.

[Vegetable Vampire]

Originally posted by Dynamo Rex (mrrexplorer):

Astral Blade must eliminated from the game, no NERF, ELIMINATED FROM THE GAME.

A stupid broken hability who if you dont use a sacred shields or barbarians stuns charge you are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ death.

You choose Industry? You are death You choose feudal? You are Death You Choose Darkness? You are death. The only Meta-army nows are the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ same, first Astral, Barbarians and Order. Chaos Astral barbarians with astral are just red/blue are broken like ♥♥♥♥, Pure Order is broken like ♥♥♥♥ (Invencible moral, spirititual damage from all attacks, infinite stacks from defense, moral and attacks, always first attack, always first defense) Astral Order.....well, you can imagine, infinite heal and infinite upgraded from all attacks defense and resistances WTF.

Just deleted astral blades, just ♥♥♥♥ off that passive. Just kill entire armys with three attacks all time..

Okay troll. But at least learn to read. It's called "Star Blades", not "Astral Blade". Goes to show what a troll you are. You are not even aware you are a troll.

No one here read anything past the first sentence.

YOU NEED TO GIT GUT

[AnemoneMeer]

Originally posted by Pumis:

Originally posted by AnemoneMeer:

In the case of an early game trashwar between two empires, yes. Mystic wins. Star blades excels at this. Generally speaking, much like getting into a land war in asia, you shouldn't be fighting Mystic players in a T1 trash fight.

Once we start getting into higher tier units, Star blades is not very impactful and your racial units are worse baseline than others.

I make it a point to only use magic when I need it early, even as a wizard king, so that I can save resources and focus on my economy. My units can heal HP over time, but any mana spent is mana I don't have to get enchantments and summons up early.

No clue why you keep calling them as trash fights, usually wording is used to describe pointless or menial fights not rush strategies. This makes mystics superior for rushing strategies.

For baseline for higher tiers. I take it that you haven't tried yet mass producing tier 1 units in late game? Extremely viable and strong strategy if done correctly. Units that basically cost nothing, and do ridiculously high damage, enough to even destroy higher tier units within single turn. Star blade contributes a lot to such approach.

"I make it a point to only use magic when I need it early, even as a wizard king, so that I can save resources and focus on my economy."
Thing is... That's your own personal choice, and playing as mystic without using magic well... kind of defeats purpose of playing mystic in the first place.

Massed T1 units just die to zephyrs with meteor arrows + chain lightning arrows. Outranges them and obliterates entire legions. Yes, Star Blades is good if you're spamming trash units. But you need to remember that high tier units often come with a dedicated "Trash eradication" button. To say nothing of how easy it is to delete entire stacks of T1 units with massed strategic spells. I've fired ten in one strategic turn before, trust me, T1's do not survive contact with a Wizard King chasing a Magic Victory. They just don't have the baseline HP to not die to Wrath of the Emperor spam. And the upkeep spent to waddle them over to my territory, let alone their gold cost, is higher than the cost it takes to Wrath of the Emperor them off the map in lategame.

------------------------

Yes, not spamming spells defeats the point of Mystic. That's the thing though, you are spending mana for every individual stack of Star Blades you get. Early on, that means you are bleeding mana relative to others, and need to expend gold and provinces to acquire the mana to maintain Star Blades. A cost that other empires do not pay, and they can invest those resources elsewhere. It's better in combat early game, but worse economy, and Mystic is reliant on it. It is a trade-off.

[Gargoyle]

Originally posted by Dynamo Rex (mrrexplorer):

Astral Blade must eliminated from the game, no NERF, ELIMINATED FROM THE GAME.

A stupid broken hability who if you dont use a sacred shields or barbarians stuns charge you are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ death.

You choose Industry? You are death You choose feudal? You are Death You Choose Darkness? You are death. The only Meta-army nows are the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ same, first Astral, Barbarians and Order. Chaos Astral barbarians with astral are just red/blue are broken like ♥♥♥♥, Pure Order is broken like ♥♥♥♥ (Invencible moral, spirititual damage from all attacks, infinite stacks from defense, moral and attacks, always first attack, always first defense) Astral Order.....well, you can imagine, infinite heal and infinite upgraded from all attacks defense and resistances WTF.

Just deleted astral blades, just ♥♥♥♥ off that passive. Just kill entire armys with three attacks all time..

If i was Death,,,then the astral blade users would be doomed... I think the word you are looking for is dead.

[Swisspike]

Originally posted by Dynamo Rex (mrrexplorer):

Originally posted by BigJ:

Run a resistance stack build and see them do 8 damage total to your t1 units. Tome of warding is a godsent if you know you will fight mystic.

I am very tired use the same tactic you tell to me

you think i dont known that, with all respect?

Dude. You addressed a specific problem, and you were given a specific solution.

Kind of like what do you do with calvary..you use spears and pikes. Sorry if it's "boring", but a counter is just that.

Why should there be an infinite number of counters? Games, and warfare, simply don't work like that.

[Robert II. Flanderský]

For me its normal, that if i play against mystic, even on normal. Their shield unit has 13/12 on resist and their mage does 50 - 60 dmg. Yes, i can counter it when i am specifically targeting this type of bs. But its still weird that mystic shield unit can have more armor than my bastion.
Never had problem with high AI.

[NzFox]

Originally posted by Swisspike:

Originally posted by Dynamo Rex (mrrexplorer):

I am very tired use the same tactic you tell to me

you think i dont known that, with all respect?

Dude. You addressed a specific problem, and you were given a specific solution.

Kind of like what do you do with calvary..you use spears and pikes. Sorry if it's "boring", but a counter is just that.

Why should there be an infinite number of counters? Games, and warfare, simply don't work like that.

they were actually given a couple of dozen options, they themselves pointed out at lest 8. I honestly think its a AI generated comment trying to farm badges, which is why everything is logically inconstant and every second word is wrong

[yuzhonglu]

Early on at Tier 1 and 2 I'd argue Spider mount spam is more OP. Mass AOE damage immobilize? Yes.

[Pumis]

Originally posted by AnemoneMeer:

Originally posted by Pumis:

No clue why you keep calling them as trash fights, usually wording is used to describe pointless or menial fights not rush strategies. This makes mystics superior for rushing strategies.

For baseline for higher tiers. I take it that you haven't tried yet mass producing tier 1 units in late game? Extremely viable and strong strategy if done correctly. Units that basically cost nothing, and do ridiculously high damage, enough to even destroy higher tier units within single turn. Star blade contributes a lot to such approach.

"I make it a point to only use magic when I need it early, even as a wizard king, so that I can save resources and focus on my economy."
Thing is... That's your own personal choice, and playing as mystic without using magic well... kind of defeats purpose of playing mystic in the first place.

Massed T1 units just die to zephyrs with meteor arrows + chain lightning arrows. Outranges them and obliterates entire legions. Yes, Star Blades is good if you're spamming trash units. But you need to remember that high tier units often come with a dedicated "Trash eradication" button. To say nothing of how easy it is to delete entire stacks of T1 units with massed strategic spells. I've fired ten in one strategic turn before, trust me, T1's do not survive contact with a Wizard King chasing a Magic Victory. They just don't have the baseline HP to not die to Wrath of the Emperor spam. And the upkeep spent to waddle them over to my territory, let alone their gold cost, is higher than the cost it takes to Wrath of the Emperor them off the map in lategame.

------------------------

Yes, not spamming spells defeats the point of Mystic. That's the thing though, you are spending mana for every individual stack of Star Blades you get. Early on, that means you are bleeding mana relative to others, and need to expend gold and provinces to acquire the mana to maintain Star Blades. A cost that other empires do not pay, and they can invest those resources elsewhere. It's better in combat early game, but worse economy, and Mystic is reliant on it. It is a trade-off.

Tier 1 archers can easily destroy zephyrs. You talk about outrange but you're not talking about the cost. Tier 1 units can be easily reduced to 50% of upkeep and they are already cheaper than zephyr. This is the whole point of tier 1 spam. Cost effectiveness. Usually only players who play on hardest difficulties on every strategy game, tend to favor low tier units in masses due to how cost effective they are. Like obviously min maxed single zephyr is better than one tier 1 ranged guy. But this is where you fail to take into account the fact that you can get several of those tier 1 guys to match up with higher tiers. Not to mention that blessing of the meek exists.. Trust me on this, I rofl stomped against very hard A.I who spammed higher tier units while I just spammed lower tier. Heck there is even youtuber who plays on brutal and just spams tier 1 skirmishers and destroys A.I in battle.

"That's the thing though, you are spending mana for every individual stack of Star Blades you get."
Which you would spend anyway if you didn't use star blade.

Late edit. Zephyr archer's upkeep is 20. Normal archer is 8. You get 2,5 archers with upkeep of zephyr archer. Zephyr archer's base damage is 14 and archer's 10. However two units make it 20.
Now if we take the upkeep reduction into account. It's extremely easy to get to cap of 50% with tier 1 and very early on. Meaning with upkeep or 1 zephyr archer... you can have 5 archers. Which makes 14 damage vs 50. Zephyr archer while strong individually, isn't just cost effective.