SHIPS needs a BIG Buff !!!

[Youdontknowmeatall]

Reason is simple:

It cant be that you loose with DEDICATED Naval Vessels against INFERIOR Land Units, basically being placed on Transports !

You can use them only on Water but they are

- outGUNned
- outHPed
- outABILITYed
- and outSKILLed

by even mediocre Land Units !!

It doesnt make any sense that DUAL PURPOSE Units are better than SPECIALIZED ones !!


So in summary, why should you even build them in the first place, in its current state ???


My (simple) Proposition:

- either DOUBLE the HP of all Ships and increase Damage by 50 % (which should be realistic)

- or decrease HP and Damage of all Land Units when they enter a Ship to 70 %


The latter looks more difficult, so i would porpose as simple BUFF of HP and DAMAGE for Ships !!

/Problem solved^^

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Yeah we had that problem since age of wonders 3.

[PeaceMaker]

Yea, land units on transports shouldn't really have a chance unless the land units use the old Roman hook-and-draw then attack and fight like on land... or maybe they have a long-range ability they can use from boats, and I've got a feeling that doesn't happen (haven't had a ship battle yet).

I'm sure someone will pop up with, "It's a fantasy so anything goes!" cop-out excuse again.

[Youdontknowmeatall]

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Yeah we had that problem since age of wonders 3.

Agree, but in Planetfall it was solved much better:

Ships were Kings over there and ruled the Waves ... as it should be !!!

[Youdontknowmeatall]

Originally posted by PeaceMaker:

Yea, land units on transports shouldn't really have a chance unless the land units use the old Roman hook-and-draw then attack and fight like on land... or maybe they have a long-range ability they can use from boats, and I've got a feeling that doesn't happen (haven't had a ship battle yet).

I'm sure someone will pop up with, "It's a fantasy so anything goes!" cop-out excuse again.

Your feeling is right, sadly !

You have a Ramming Ship with a single Storm Attack and a Ballista Ship, which is basically just a simple Archer :(((

Pls check also out my Proposition added in the OP Post^^

[Youdontknowmeatall]

Originally posted by PeaceMaker:

I'm sure someone will pop up with, "It's a fantasy so anything goes!" cop-out excuse again.

...not yet ! But lezs wait and see... Hahaha :)

Besides that, IF the DEvs would follow this approach, we wouldnt need any Ships at all !!


But we have those ingame and to give them some purpose, MAKE SHIPS (MUCH) STRONGER pls !!!

Even in the ancient times, Ships were a force to reckon with...and couldnt just get beaten by Units on a raft xD

[CrUsHeR]

Haven't built one of those yet. Reason is that the "oceans" on the continents map are really just rivers and a lake in the middle. And there are no threatening water spawners, or even lucrative landmarks to clear.


I think the ships were one of the things which were vastly overpowered in AOW3 and PF. Like those galleons could kill at least 2 armies of high quality land units if you could play the cannons properly.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Haven't built one of those yet. Reason is that the "oceans" on the continents map are really just rivers and a lake in the middle. And there are no threatening water spawners, or even lucrative landmarks to clear.


I think the ships were one of the things which were vastly overpowered in AOW3 and PF. Like those galleons could kill at least 2 armies of high quality land units if you could play the cannons properly.

Those games had the same issu tho.
You could easly just hop on land and compleetly avoid the ships.

[Sarissofoi]

Agree.
The only good Ship fights were in Age of Empires 1(where troops were just passengers and ships just shoot at each other). No ship = no sea travel.

[StoriesBonesTell]

Played an islands map. Ships are cheaper than equivalent units in terms of cost and upkeep. They have more movement and don't suffer from the embarked penalty. I think the easiest fix is just giving them damage buff against embark units same way spear counters cav

[Youdontknowmeatall]

Originally posted by StoriesBonesTell:

Played an islands map. Ships are cheaper than equivalent units in terms of cost and upkeep. They have more movement and don't suffer from the embarked penalty. I think the easiest fix is just giving them damage buff against embark units same way spear counters cav

Yeah, agree something like that !

But i disagree that they are cheap:

My Ballista Ship costs more upkeep than the corresponding Land Units !
...and it doesnt have more HP or Damage than those !!
...not to speak about that those Ships can only do "Ship - Things" ofc and are completly restricted to the Seas xD

Ofc this sound trivial but it is important to always keep this in mind, when Devs want to balance Ships versus Land Units !!!

Ships MUST be much stronger on the Sea...why else should anyone bother building some ???

[Veg]

Originally posted by Youdontknowmeatall:

Originally posted by StoriesBonesTell:

Played an islands map. Ships are cheaper than equivalent units in terms of cost and upkeep. They have more movement and don't suffer from the embarked penalty. I think the easiest fix is just giving them damage buff against embark units same way spear counters cav

Yeah, agree something like that !

But i disagree that they are cheap:

My Ballista Ship costs more upkeep than the corresponding Land Units !
...and it doesnt have more HP or Damage than those !!
...not to speak about that those Ships can only do "Ship - Things" ofc and are completly restricted to the Seas xD

Ofc this sound trivial but it is important to always keep this in mind, when Devs want to balance Ships versus Land Units !!!

Ships MUST be much stronger on the Sea...why else should anyone bother building some ???

Im going to be real, I think they left sea stuff in an unifnished shape to launch a naval rework as part of one of the expansions. They did this with planetfall too. in AOW1, the whole gimmick of Lizardmen is that they could traverse sea tiles. First expansion content is lizardmen. So we'll see how it shakes out

[Youdontknowmeatall]

My Propositions are:

1. 50 % more HP
2. 50 % more Damage
3. 1 Tile more Range for the ranged Naval Units
4. atleast 50 % more Resistance ---> but a negative Fire Resistance to balance this

The goal should be, that the Ship should ALWAYS have an easy win against a similar Land Unit ! If a Player just want to play with Land Units, he should need much stronger ones...otherwise we could delete all Ships at all


OR, the Alternative:

1. ALL Land Units get a FLAT 70 % Reduktion in Damage, HP, Resistance when they enter the water !

But this is ofc more difficult to change, i guess

[Youdontknowmeatall]

Originally posted by Veg:

Originally posted by Youdontknowmeatall:

Yeah, agree something like that !

But i disagree that they are cheap:

My Ballista Ship costs more upkeep than the corresponding Land Units !
...and it doesnt have more HP or Damage than those !!
...not to speak about that those Ships can only do "Ship - Things" ofc and are completly restricted to the Seas xD

Ofc this sound trivial but it is important to always keep this in mind, when Devs want to balance Ships versus Land Units !!!

Ships MUST be much stronger on the Sea...why else should anyone bother building some ???

Im going to be real, I think they left sea stuff in an unifnished shape to launch a naval rework as part of one of the expansions. They did this with planetfall too. in AOW1, the whole gimmick of Lizardmen is that they could traverse sea tiles. First expansion content is lizardmen. So we'll see how it shakes out

Hmmm, i hope you are wrong about that ! Hahaha xD
I have to admit, i cant remember anymore about the initial AoW 3 seawarfare nor Seawarfare in AoW 3 at all, but are you also sure about Planetfall ???

I played anything around 1.500 Hours in PF and the Ships over there are really powerful and in a good balance against Land Units ... or did this come only with the DLCs later ??

[Pierre117]

I was surprised when I saw the embark debuff was only -10% damage. Ships have no value

[Youdontknowmeatall]

Originally posted by Derezz3d:

I was surprised when I saw the embark debuff was only -10% damage. Ships have no value

Didnt noticed this up to now, i have to admit... BUT, ofc you are right !!!

On the other hand, that there is even a small debuff is something good, because then the Devs have just to increase it !!!

I would say, 50 % Debuff should be right ! Think about, it will affect ALL, not only our Units but the AI ones at well xD

Minimum would be a 30 % one, because everything less, like it is now, renders Ships completly useless:
- You even loose with a SUPERIOR Ship Force against an INFERIOR Land Force atm :(
- and the all-time trivial one: you cant use Ships on Land ;P

So pls Devs, change this