Game is stale already.

[Fast]

I think its to do with the lack of diverse gameplay mechanics.

You end up doing the same things with the same units with the same looking cities and the same enemies.

The tome system seems like it was supposed to be the tech on top of your cities builds but really its just pick the good stuff (usually similar or the same each time unless you roleplay) for efficiency sake, and watch the brutal AI cheat in front of your eyes whilst you still win because the AI doesnt build to Win it builds for the sake of doing something.

The complexity mechanically is very poor, the mass amount of resource bloat doesnt make the game better, it just hides the flaws in the lack of actual game play systems.

Every run feels the same even if you arbitrarily change it up and try to do something different.

Compared to something like the TOTAL WAR series of Civ , this is very basic.
That being said, its not bad or horrible...just...meh.

[Terrkas]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by RodHull:

Someone has beaten Elden ring in 7 minutes I wonder does that make it a shallow pointless game?

I'm being a bit facetious, as that person took months figuring out how to do that. But the point is you can't really measure games like that. Especially 4x and strategy games. It's like the people who complain its to easy to win CK2 or CK3, like yes if you just neglect the roleplay elements and just min max its easy as anything.

In old pen and paper rpgs we called these players munchkins and powergamers/min-maxers and shockingly they were in the end always the ones who had the least fun.

As you said, it took MONTHS to figure out how to bet Elden Ring in 7 minutes.
It takes 2 hours to find out be-all-end-all builds in AoW4.

Elden Ring has more restrictions, so it has more depth, and took much longer to figure out until it was mastered.
AoW4 has total freedom, so it is mastered in hours, and after that remains only empty boredom, and the illusion of choice.

Speedruns usually skip most of the content. How is avoiding the games content supposed to be mastering a game?
Except for mastering speedruns.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by RodHull:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Elden Ring has more restrictions, so it has more depth, and took much longer to figure out until it was mastered.
AoW4 has total freedom, so it is mastered in hours, and after that remains only empty boredom, and the illusion of choice.

Try to keep up I wasn't comparing it to Elden ring I made a point of saying I brought it to be facetious.

Compare it to say CK2 though, if you min max in that you can also 'win the game' easily very quickly

You are the only falling behind, here.
You are stuck on the defense of this game.

[Terrkas]

Originally posted by Fast:

Originally posted by Terrkas:

A win gives 500 XP, so one pantheon lvl. If you play 1v1 close vs easy ai, you get an easy win in a few minutes. (Could be usefull to update your leaders for the pantheon, if you ever feel like you have a better idea)

If op really only does vs easy ai, close 1v1s, its no wonder the game is stale. And he hasnt even started playing yet.

i play only brutal difficulty.

You claimed you can beat (brutal?) ai in 3 turns, have more or less finished the game in around 25 hours and know about all the best ways to play the game while constantly contradicting yourself. I think we can agree, your word can not be taken seriously.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Terrkas:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

As you said, it took MONTHS to figure out how to bet Elden Ring in 7 minutes.
It takes 2 hours to find out be-all-end-all builds in AoW4.

Elden Ring has more restrictions, so it has more depth, and took much longer to figure out until it was mastered.
AoW4 has total freedom, so it is mastered in hours, and after that remains only empty boredom, and the illusion of choice.

Speedruns usually skip most of the content. How is avoiding the games content supposed to be mastering a game?
Except for mastering speedruns.

Strategy games are meant to be played abusively, by the player. It is the dev's job to put up hurdles preventing the player from metagaming the game to irrelevance.

[RodHull]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by RodHull:

Try to keep up I wasn't comparing it to Elden ring I made a point of saying I brought it to be facetious.

Compare it to say CK2 though, if you min max in that you can also 'win the game' easily very quickly

You are the only falling behind, here.
You are stuck on the defense of this game.

I don't understand this grammatically or in the context of what I wrote in response...

I think most strategy gamers would agree CK2 is a game with depth and longevity, it can be beaten from a fresh start as the lowliest of characters in mere hours by speedrunning it.

How is that not relevant to this discussion?

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by RodHull:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

You are the only falling behind, here.
You are stuck on the defense of this game.

I don't understand this grammatically or in the context of what I wrote in response...

I think most strategy gamers would agree CK2 is a game with depth and longevity, it can be beaten from a fresh start as the lowliest of characters in mere hours by speedrunning it.

How is that not relevant to this discussion?

It is just not.

[RodHull]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Strategy games are meant to be played abusively, by the player. It is the dev's job to put up hurdles preventing the player from metagaming the game to irrelevance.

LOL ok so I presume you know Civ 6 current speedrun record is milliseconds, and many more that are under a minute. All metagaming and abusing broken mechanics.

Tell me again how civ is less 'basic'

[RodHull]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by RodHull:

I don't understand this grammatically or in the context of what I wrote in response...

I think most strategy gamers would agree CK2 is a game with depth and longevity, it can be beaten from a fresh start as the lowliest of characters in mere hours by speedrunning it.

How is that not relevant to this discussion?

It is just not.

OK so pointing out that another strategy regarded as deep can be equally metagamed is not relevant to the discussion of how this can be metagamed.

Gotcha champ

[Oleander Hume]

Originally posted by Terrkas:

Originally posted by Fast:

i play only brutal difficulty.

You claimed you can beat (brutal?) ai in 3 turns, have more or less finished the game in around 25 hours and know about all the best ways to play the game while constantly contradicting yourself. I think we can agree, your word can not be taken seriously.

Agree this guy is just bullying on the forum. Plain liar.

30hour here an i hardly started to scratch the beginning of "understanding of links between things"...

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by RodHull:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Strategy games are meant to be played abusively, by the player. It is the dev's job to put up hurdles preventing the player from metagaming the game to irrelevance.

LOL ok so I presume you know Civ 6 current speedrun record is milliseconds, and many more that are under a minute. All metagaming and abusing broken mechanics.

Tell me again how civ is less 'basic'

How long did it take for players to find and optimize that build?

[Antpile]

Originally posted by Fast:

Originally posted by Tech-Priest:

The design for the enemies difficulty scaling based on player Development + Difficulty, with a sprinkle of absurd troop spawning really was just lazy.

imagine programming actual AI

A feat the smartest scientists on Earth are yet to accomplish.

[RodHull]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by RodHull:

LOL ok so I presume you know Civ 6 current speedrun record is milliseconds, and many more that are under a minute. All metagaming and abusing broken mechanics.

Tell me again how civ is less 'basic'

How long did it take for players to find and optimize that build?

Not very long its not a build its just abusing busted and stupid game features.

[Fast]

Originally posted by Toofou:

Originally posted by Terrkas:

You claimed you can beat (brutal?) ai in 3 turns, have more or less finished the game in around 25 hours and know about all the best ways to play the game while constantly contradicting yourself. I think we can agree, your word can not be taken seriously.

Agree this guy is just bullying on the forum. Plain liar.

30hour here an i hardly started to scratch the beginning of "understanding of links between things"...

put multiplier on top of multiplier , biggest number == always better (caveat situational is different).
U want simple military victory, take the transformations that giv flat stackable damage
Fuedal gives you stand together, and knights signet for non fuedal (20%), spawnkin is flat (20%) packhunter and flanking can also be stacked on top. you can then use things like zeal with condemn to gain on average another 20-30% damage , vessels of chaos can provide another 30% damage , and if you really wanna go deeper you can go astral and astral reflections and mimics for your leaders and do 1-2 turn wombos and everything ded.
flameburst weapons is nice on top of this, as is things like cosmic overdrive. depending on how long your game goes. Normally, you are done before you need all the things.
you can also use cruel weaponry with morale destruction on your leaders for mod damage but ive never needed to go this far.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by RodHull:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

How long did it take for players to find and optimize that build?

Not very long its not a build its just abusing busted and stupid game features.

Then it is a very poor game.

[RodHull]

Originally posted by Fast:

put multiplier on top of multiplier , biggest number == always better (caveat situational is different).
U want simple military victory, take the transformations that giv flat stackable damage
Fuedal gives you stand together, and knights signet for non fuedal (20%), spawnkin is flat (20%) packhunter and flanking can also be stacked on top. you can then use things like zeal with condemn to gain on average another 20-30% damage , vessels of chaos can provide another 30% damage , and if you really wanna go deeper you can go astral and astral reflections and mimics for your leaders and do 1-2 turn wombos and everything ded.
flameburst weapons is nice on top of this, as is things like cosmic overdrive. depending on how long your game goes. Normally, you are done before you need all the things.

Still haven't told us what is 'not basic' about civ and TW series, I wait with baited breath.