Wizard king is NOT superior to champion.

[Eldrin]

I have seen several threads where people think the wizard king is straight up better and why even pick Champion. I am here to say they are equal, if not the champion having an edge.

Lets break it down.

1. Champion gets 10% extra gold and +20 stability to all cities while Wizard King gets 10% mana.

I had 1 game where i was short on gold and 1 where I was short on mana. The one where I was short on gold SUCKED far more. Not being able to build is REALLY bad while not being able to summon or spam spells wont cripple you in the long run. Also when in need your AI allies will happily sell you Mana for Gold, but not the other way around.

Now the 20 stability might go unnoticed but it can actually be huge. To gain bonuses or negatives a threshold has to be met. For example there is no difference between city stability when it is anywhere between 10-39, it is then stable and grants you +5% to all resources.
The 20 stability is very noticeable and can easelly push you to the next stability level or atleast keep you from negative stability, as negative stability gives twice the penalties that good stability does.
TLDR: 20 stability is just a boost to your ENTIRE economy and it makes a difference. Just from having gold to build up your cities and positive stability, the champion bonuses can ECLPICE the wizard +10% mana, even having more mana then the wizard king.

2. Champion All none hero units 20% experience vs Extra casting points per Wizard king level.

The 20% experience can really add up, a max level unit next to a level 0 unit are WORLDS apart. If this is stacked with other exp bonuses then this may be superior.
Otherwise the wizard kings ability can make a big difference on the world map and in combat, but ONLY if you have insane amounts of mana to use it on. If you run out of mana, then this bonus is nothing.


3. 100 free relations with city states vs Overchannel.

Overchannel is what the wizard king is really known for and it can be powerful, however i feel like overrated as it will not win the battle for you on its own. I feel like magic is not as powerful as it was in AOE3. Should you be low on mana, this ability could become straight up useless.

100 free relations with city states may seem useless or a novelty but what people may not know is that your relations BOOST the speed at which you make them your vassals. In otherwords if you and a wizardking race to getting a city state as your vassal diplomatically then you have a clear advantage to be first. Which in turn later boosts your economy by getting more vassals.







TLDR: Champions bonuses do not feel like they give much, but if you understand the game mechanics then you will realize, that they are equal if not better then then wizard kings bonuses. However going a HEAVY magic/casting build can easelly make the wizard kings bonuses better.
So bottom line is that they are BOTH GOOD, but meant for different builds and playstyles.

[Darkfireslide]

while not being able to summon or spam spells wont cripple you in the long run

It's more a question of strategy. Summoners can summon entire armies in this game, so if you pump mana production you can both summon units and have a lot of combat spells, too. Wizard Kings get a bonus to their per-turn casting points for summons, too.

Now the 20 stability might go unnoticed but it can actually be huge

True, having negative stability is a penalty to ALL income, and Wizard King players need much better economy management in their cities. Worth noting that positive stability only boosts food and production (but production is basically a boost to every income)

The 20% experience can really add up, a max level unit next to a level 0 unit are WORLDS apart

True, but really this bonus is best for units that Evolve so you can get evolutions faster.

(Overchannel) i feel like overrated as it will not win the battle for you on its own

With enough mana, you can cast something like 10 spells per combat, and being able to alpha strike enemy units at the start of combat for 2 FREE actions is very, very strong, especially in the clearing phase early game where you can take tougher fights earlier as a result of it.

but ONLY if you have insane amounts of mana to use it on

Skill issue, not a flaw with the strategy itself. It's like unit production-focused strategies not building enough Draft buildings.

100 free relations with city states may seem useless or a novelty but what people may not know is that your relations BOOST the speed at which you make them your vassals

It's a great bonus if you're good with your scouting and find free cities faster than everyone else. Free Cities are definitely a mysterious mechanic the player base doesn't really understand yet, but for those who learn it I think that using the Rally of the Lieges properly can give a Champion a frightening amount of units provided they have the gold to do so.


I agree with you generally. Just being pedantic in a few places :)

[Vegetable Vampire]

Without even reading your post, here is the actual only true answer: it depends.

[Eldrin]

Originally posted by Vegetable Vampire:

Without even reading your post, here is the actual only true answer: it depends.

There is a TLDR version of it that basically says the same thing. This is rather that Champion isn't inferior as many claim it is.

[Eldrin]

Originally posted by Paladin Dark:

while not being able to summon or spam spells wont cripple you in the long run

It's more a question of strategy. Summoners can summon entire armies in this game, so if you pump mana production you can both summon units and have a lot of combat spells, too. Wizard Kings get a bonus to their per-turn casting points for summons, too.

Now the 20 stability might go unnoticed but it can actually be huge

True, having negative stability is a penalty to ALL income, and Wizard King players need much better economy management in their cities. Worth noting that positive stability only boosts food and production (but production is basically a boost to every income)

The 20% experience can really add up, a max level unit next to a level 0 unit are WORLDS apart

True, but really this bonus is best for units that Evolve so you can get evolutions faster.

(Overchannel) i feel like overrated as it will not win the battle for you on its own

With enough mana, you can cast something like 10 spells per combat, and being able to alpha strike enemy units at the start of combat for 2 FREE actions is very, very strong, especially in the clearing phase early game where you can take tougher fights earlier as a result of it.

but ONLY if you have insane amounts of mana to use it on

Skill issue, not a flaw with the strategy itself. It's like unit production-focused strategies not building enough Draft buildings.

100 free relations with city states may seem useless or a novelty but what people may not know is that your relations BOOST the speed at which you make them your vassals

It's a great bonus if you're good with your scouting and find free cities faster than everyone else. Free Cities are definitely a mysterious mechanic the player base doesn't really understand yet, but for those who learn it I think that using the Rally of the Lieges properly can give a Champion a frightening amount of units provided they have the gold to do so.


I agree with you generally. Just being pedantic in a few places :)

It is true that the with magic you can make entire armies. Of of the tier 4 nature books had a skill that turned a forest province into an army that was full of IV, III and II units. I once even got three IV units two III and one I unit in a single army. Thats borderline broken, but it still needs a powerful economy to sustain them, which the champion does better.

I didn't notice that positive stability boosts only food and production while the other way around is everything. That is even more of reason to avoid negative like the plague.

[aqvamare]

Originally posted by Paladin Dark:

while not being able to summon or spam spells wont cripple you in the long run

It's more a question of strategy. Summoners can summon entire armies in this game, so if you pump mana production you can both summon units and have a lot of combat spells, too. Wizard Kings get a bonus to their per-turn casting points for summons, too.

Now the 20 stability might go unnoticed but it can actually be huge

True, having negative stability is a penalty to ALL income, and Wizard King players need much better economy management in their cities. Worth noting that positive stability only boosts food and production (but production is basically a boost to every income)

The 20% experience can really add up, a max level unit next to a level 0 unit are WORLDS apart

True, but really this bonus is best for units that Evolve so you can get evolutions faster.

(Overchannel) i feel like overrated as it will not win the battle for you on its own

With enough mana, you can cast something like 10 spells per combat, and being able to alpha strike enemy units at the start of combat for 2 FREE actions is very, very strong, especially in the clearing phase early game where you can take tougher fights earlier as a result of it.

but ONLY if you have insane amounts of mana to use it on

Skill issue, not a flaw with the strategy itself. It's like unit production-focused strategies not building enough Draft buildings.

100 free relations with city states may seem useless or a novelty but what people may not know is that your relations BOOST the speed at which you make them your vassals

It's a great bonus if you're good with your scouting and find free cities faster than everyone else. Free Cities are definitely a mysterious mechanic the player base doesn't really understand yet, but for those who learn it I think that using the Rally of the Lieges properly can give a Champion a frightening amount of units provided they have the gold to do so.


I agree with you generally. Just being pedantic in a few places :)

And Champion does the same, only faster.
You income comes from vasals and city, and the buildings in the City.
The truth is, a champion simply gets the +10% mana from faster expasion through vassals.

And his +10% money hepls him, to keep the building querry full, and still have enough money to do the diplomatic game.

[aqvamare]

Originally posted by Eldrin:

Originally posted by Paladin Dark:

It's more a question of strategy. Summoners can summon entire armies in this game, so if you pump mana production you can both summon units and have a lot of combat spells, too. Wizard Kings get a bonus to their per-turn casting points for summons, too.



True, having negative stability is a penalty to ALL income, and Wizard King players need much better economy management in their cities. Worth noting that positive stability only boosts food and production (but production is basically a boost to every income)



True, but really this bonus is best for units that Evolve so you can get evolutions faster.



With enough mana, you can cast something like 10 spells per combat, and being able to alpha strike enemy units at the start of combat for 2 FREE actions is very, very strong, especially in the clearing phase early game where you can take tougher fights earlier as a result of it.



Skill issue, not a flaw with the strategy itself. It's like unit production-focused strategies not building enough Draft buildings.



It's a great bonus if you're good with your scouting and find free cities faster than everyone else. Free Cities are definitely a mysterious mechanic the player base doesn't really understand yet, but for those who learn it I think that using the Rally of the Lieges properly can give a Champion a frightening amount of units provided they have the gold to do so.


I agree with you generally. Just being pedantic in a few places :)

It is true that the with magic you can make entire armies. Of of the tier 4 nature books had a skill that turned a forest province into an army that was full of IV, III and II units. I once even got three IV units two III and one I unit in a single army. Thats borderline broken, but it still needs a powerful economy to sustain them, which the champion does better.

I didn't notice that positive stability boosts only food and production while the other way around is everything. That is even more of reason to avoid negative like the plague.

AWAKEN THE FOREST Summon Spell Tier VIII
Casting Cost: 400 400
Target a province with forest:
The forest is removed.
An army of Animals and Plants under your control is summoned.

Summoned Units:
I - Entwined Thrall
III - Entwined Protector
II - Warg
III - Goretusk Matriarch
IV - Entwined Scourge

There is a github with all data about spells and co, and a working race calculator.

[Ultima546]

Wizard King is superior if you want your Ruler to have a different form than the rest of the faction, since Champions can’t.

[Eldrin]

Originally posted by aqvamare:

Originally posted by Eldrin:

It is true that the with magic you can make entire armies. Of of the tier 4 nature books had a skill that turned a forest province into an army that was full of IV, III and II units. I once even got three IV units two III and one I unit in a single army. Thats borderline broken, but it still needs a powerful economy to sustain them, which the champion does better.

I didn't notice that positive stability boosts only food and production while the other way around is everything. That is even more of reason to avoid negative like the plague.

AWAKEN THE FOREST Summon Spell Tier VIII
Casting Cost: 400 400
Target a province with forest:
The forest is removed.
An army of Animals and Plants under your control is summoned.

Summoned Units:
I - Entwined Thrall
III - Entwined Protector
II - Warg
III - Goretusk Matriarch
IV - Entwined Scourge

There is a github with all data about spells and co, and a working race calculator.

The summon isnt set in stone. I used the spell like 4 times and the combination of units was always different.

[Butcher]

Wizard king COULD be superior if he had some decent attacking spells early on. Since decent attacking spells are late game (or even never) double cast is not that good.

[Veg]

Champion bonuses are all fine and dandy but at the end of the day, wizard gets a unit ability to cast two spells in a turn and champion does not. he needs something like that to even him out else its not even a choice. Wizard wins every time unless you're doing a really specific evolve build

[Toppins]

doing a unit enchant-focused order/materium empire right now and champion was definitely the choice, i don't have many offensive battle spells and practically all my units require gold upkeep; last game as nature/order I was way more magic focused and the wizard king felt good

[Fendelphi]

+10% mana is nice, but does not really cover the expenses of double spell casting. So even though the Wizard king has the "option" to cast twice, it is not always something they want to do.
Overall, it does make it easier to cast spells "when needed".

The Champion's bonuses are always on and always beneficial, no matter what kind of faction you are playing. Easier to manipulate free cities, easier to keep your own cities happy, and you get more gold and exp.

Basically, if you want to focus on developing your infrastructure and interact with other factions, Champions make it easier.
If you want to focus more on constantly casting spells, you go for the Wizard King.

[Lichlord9333]

Originally posted by Toppins:

doing a unit enchant-focused order/materium empire right now and champion was definitely the choice, i don't have many offensive battle spells and practically all my units require gold upkeep; last game as nature/order I was way more magic focused and the wizard king felt good

I imagine chaos could also be neat spamming tier 1 units is a money business not to mention the extra experience bonus gives them the leg up they need, perhaps combined with runesmith so enchants aren't needy in upkeep. I see potential in that.

[Livy]

Guess it boils more down to early vs late.

[yuzhonglu]

Female Wizard King gets Bikini Gear. Thus it's better.